Being told what I can or can’t buy our niece

[Litsy]

My brother and his girlfriend split up about a year ago, they have a DD who’s 4.

This has gone on for some time before they split, but his girlfriend tells people they can’t do things with DD as she wants to do them first.

I completely get that if she was planning to do these things with her, but then she waits and waits and waits.... and they don’t seem to happen.

For context, DD spends 2 days a week with her mum, 2 days with my mum and dad, a day with her dad and the other 2 days with grandparents (seperately)

Examples to name a few:

My mum and dad wanting to take her swimming. Told no. She ended up going almost 6 months later, once.

Flipped out my mum and dad went pumpkin picking and to the circus with her, but has never shown an interest in either of these things.

Wanted to take her on holiday, we were told no. She’s still not gone on holiday.

I wanted to buy her a dolls house for Christmas, no as her mum wants to buy her first (but hasn’t bought her one yet and won’t be buying her one for Christmas)

I would 100% get it if she was planning to do these things with her, but it feels like DD is suffering going without because her mums a bit controlling.

I’ve already bought her a dolls house for Christmas and I was intending for it to stay at my mum and dads (she has 2 of everything as her mums family lives half an hour away). She’s got wind of it through my brother and basically said take it back.

AIBU thinking I don’t want my niece to go without?

So after the clarification from the op the poor girl lives in four different houses each week. She doesn’t have a actual home just gets moved around. Too many parents these days just do what’s best for them, what’s the point of having a child who no one wants to do what’s best for that child? Yes she’s be better off in care then carted around everywhere.

@Embracelife

she’s so sweet aswell, she’s no bother to anyone

A child who is no bother may be hiding someth8ng

So is she happy and carefree
Or quiet and nobother and withdrawn ?

I’m hoping not 😭 she’s very shy by nature (so was I as a kid to be honest), she warms up to you fine when you sit and try and get involved in what she’s playing. She can be a bit reserved but can also be really chatty after a while if I talk to her a lot

Why are you telling her in advance what you are doing? Just go swimming, to the circus etc if they are on the days she is with you. A holiday might be harder to arrange if you need to cross over days she is with her mum. I dont understand how she knows all your intentions in advance.
And I say this as someone who co parents and has found it difficult when ex has done cool fun things with ds but thats life. i acknowledge my sadness and jealousy for what it is and move on. She should be glad her dd has a family that care for her. As for toys what she has in your parents house is nothing to do with the mam so long as its safe and age appropriate. Like it or not your niece has two families and both have equal right to treat her how they wish. Its one of the shit parts of parenting separately. Believe it or not the mother doesnt own the child nor do her wants trump everyone elses.

@midnightstar66

Actually the mum has her two days which being honest isn't that unusual for working parents.

Sorry but I know people from all over the Uk from all different walks of life but I know of nobody who's dc only spend 2 days with the supposed resident parent and spend most of their tine between other homes. It certainly seems unusual. I know plenty dc that only see the nrp that often but tbh thats shit too and requires lots of sacrifice from the other parent - but most do it!

The Girls mums house and her maternal grans house is the same house. She has 3 night there, one at maternal grandfathers and 3 nights at her Dads / Patenal Grannies.

grans house is the same house. She has 3 night there, one at maternal grandfathers and 3 nights at her Dads / Patenal Grannies.

I don't think that's correct? She's with mum/gran Monday/Tuesday night, other grandparents Wednesday/Thursday night then with other grandparents Friday night til Monday morning during which time dad rocks up as and when is convenient . Even if I got that slightly wrong and one of grandads/step grandmums 2 days don't both involve overnight stays, that's still 4 homes and 4 beds every single week. I don't think that's normal or common in any way!

@midnightstar66

grans house is the same house. She has 3 night there, one at maternal grandfathers and 3 nights at her Dads / Patenal Grannies.

I don't think that's correct? She's with mum/gran Monday/Tuesday night, other grandparents Wednesday/Thursday night then with other grandparents Friday night til Monday morning during which time dad rocks up as and when is convenient . Even if I got that slightly wrong and one of grandads/step grandmums 2 days don't both involve overnight stays, that's still 4 homes and 4 beds every single week. I don't think that's normal or common in any way!

Just to clear it up, midnightstar has hit the nail on the head. Sorry if I’ve confused anyone with the way I’ve worded it 🙈

OP, if this 'arrangement' is something the parents hashed out themselves, do I understand that to mean that no social services or other agencies were involved? If they'd been married and had had custody settled by court, there's no way in hell this sort of chaotic arrangement would have been sanctioned.

I just wonder if she's completely fallen from view of care-taking agencies? How does the nursery feel about this arrangement? Is there a social worker involved?

Poor, poor child - she would genuinely be better off in care/being fostered and seeing family regularly as visitors.

All these comments about that poor little girl, she has 2 sets of grandparents she gets to spend a lot of time with and have a relationship with, both families obviously love her and want to spend time with her. I think she’s very lucky to have so many grandparents who actually want her in their lives. Plus her parents are very lucky they have parents who help them look after their child while they work.

My In-laws bought my DDs first dolls houses, play house and other stuff without asking, it never bothered me, I was just happy to see my DDs happy. My own mother hasn’t seen my DCs in 2 years hasn’t even bought them a birthday card let alone toys or a holiday.

As for the mother, could it be that she feels she needs to be the one who needs to provide all this stuff for her DD but just can’t afford to? I know single mums like this who feel they aren’t doing enough when their DCs dads and families are buying them all sorts. Maybe she feels it’s a competition that she’s loosing.

Personally I would just buy it and not say anything, just give it your niece. My DB and SIL use to say no to certain toys for their DDs, I just went out and bought them regardless. One Xmas after they said no to a guitar and amplifier set my DN wanted, I bought it anyway. I stayed over Xmas eve with them. I got my DNs up early and had it all set up at the bottom of the stairs, my DNs woke my DB/SIL by blasting Xmas songs off key through the house. I was the best aunt but not the favourite sister for a while.

@Smallfry79

Why are you telling her in advance what you are doing? Just go swimming, to the circus etc if they are on the days she is with you. A holiday might be harder to arrange if you need to cross over days she is with her mum. I dont understand how she knows all your intentions in advance. And I say this as someone who co parents and has found it difficult when ex has done cool fun things with ds but thats life. i acknowledge my sadness and jealousy for what it is and move on. She should be glad her dd has a family that care for her. As for toys what she has in your parents house is nothing to do with the mam so long as its safe and age appropriate. Like it or not your niece has two families and both have equal right to treat her how they wish. Its one of the shit parts of parenting separately. Believe it or not the mother doesnt own the child nor do her wants trump everyone elses.

I think it’s been my brother who’s told her, I’ve not said anything to her

@GlomOfNit

OP, if this 'arrangement' is something the parents hashed out themselves, do I understand that to mean that no social services or other agencies were involved? If they'd been married and had had custody settled by court, there's no way in hell this sort of chaotic arrangement would have been sanctioned.

I just wonder if she's completely fallen from view of care-taking agencies? How does the nursery feel about this arrangement? Is there a social worker involved?

Poor, poor child - she would genuinely be better off in care/being fostered and seeing family regularly as visitors.

They’ve just come to it themselves with no arrangement from anyone. There’s no social worker and I’m not sure how much the nursery has been told, but afaik nothings been raised by them.

OP, if this 'arrangement' is something the parents hashed out themselves, do I understand that to mean that no social services or other agencies were involved? If they'd been married and had had custody settled by court, there's no way in hell this sort of chaotic arrangement would have been sanctioned.

How this would look in a court arrangement though is that mum has responsibility for dc Monday morning - Friday and dad Friday - Monday morning. During this time it is the responsibility of that parent to arrange any childcare which both parents have outsourced to the grandparents for much of the time. As neither parent appears to have an issue with each other doing so there would be no need for that to even be raised to the court.

@Bid876

All these comments about that poor little girl, she has 2 sets of grandparents she gets to spend a lot of time with and have a relationship with, both families obviously love her and want to spend time with her. I think she’s very lucky to have so many grandparents who actually want her in their lives. Plus her parents are very lucky they have parents who help them look after their child while they work.

My In-laws bought my DDs first dolls houses, play house and other stuff without asking, it never bothered me, I was just happy to see my DDs happy. My own mother hasn’t seen my DCs in 2 years hasn’t even bought them a birthday card let alone toys or a holiday.

As for the mother, could it be that she feels she needs to be the one who needs to provide all this stuff for her DD but just can’t afford to? I know single mums like this who feel they aren’t doing enough when their DCs dads and families are buying them all sorts. Maybe she feels it’s a competition that she’s loosing.

Personally I would just buy it and not say anything, just give it your niece. My DB and SIL use to say no to certain toys for their DDs, I just went out and bought them regardless. One Xmas after they said no to a guitar and amplifier set my DN wanted, I bought it anyway. I stayed over Xmas eve with them. I got my DNs up early and had it all set up at the bottom of the stairs, my DNs woke my DB/SIL by blasting Xmas songs off key through the house. I was the best aunt but not the favourite sister for a while.

You’re definitely the cool aunt 😂

It could be, like I said she only works part time and gets UC. But she’s just bought a new car and is out drinking every weekend so it’s difficult to see how you wouldn’t have £40 to spend on a dolls house.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I’ll get it anyway and keep it at my mum and dads. I’ll try to give her it when mums not around (assuming she will be on Christmas Day), at least she can play with it half the week

First of all the ex girlfriend/mum sounds very unreasonable and I understand that life is difficult when partners/parents spilt but I feel really sorry for your niece and being moved pillar to post all the time when aged 4 could cause her to have issues with attachment when older... I said ‘could’ not definitely...

So the child's mum technically has her four nights (Monday to Friday), and the child's dad has her three nights (Friday to Monday).

Mum works and the girl goes to nursery Mon-Fri (sometimes skipping a Monday or a Friday). Together with her mum, the nan (who also works) they manage the drop-offs and pick ups and having the girl at home for two of those four days, but (because of work commitments?) they use mum's dad, the granddad, for wrap-around care on the other two days. Perhaps it worked out more convenient for granddad to keep the child overnight rather than bringing her back home late when mum finally gets home from work. Either way, it is how mum organises her four nights around childcare and work.

Dad has his three nights on days when he works. So he organises his childcare and work commitments by using his parents for two nights, just as the mum uses her dad for two nights.

The mum can't really blame the dad for foisting the child on his parents for two of his contact days, when she foists the child on her dad for two of her contact days. Nor he, her. They're both the same.

What they need to be doing is re-arranging their working hours, and/or their contact days, so that mum has the child on those days when she isn't working (e.g. weekends, and she only works part-time so will have some other days off) and dad has the child on those days when he isn't working (e.g. Sun-Tue night).

Then they can always ask either set of grandparents for help and childcare, e.g. if mom wants to go out on a weekend.

But tbh OP your brother sounds like he is quite content with the situation, having his contact nights on days that he works is a convenient excuse for not having to step up to his responsibilities.

The mum equally seems to be happy to have her weekends free for going out, rather than having her daughter to look after. She works part-time plus lives with her mum who also helps, she should be capable of arranging working/contact days to be able to actually have her daughter on the four days that she has her.

OP it is in your and your parents' interest to get the dad to step up. If this continues, sooner or later the girl will be on SS radar, your brother might lose his contact days, and there is a good chance your parents (and you) will no longer see your DNiece. At all, ever. You have a lot to lose here.
Your parents are enabling your brother, but this won't last, and when it all falls apart, your parents will have zero rights. It will all depend on your brother. If he steps up as a parent, he and in turn your parents and you will remain involved in your nieces life. If he doesn't step up as a parent, the chances are that sooner or later he will have much reduced involvement with his daughter, which will mean that you and your parents have near zero involvement. He might lose his contact days, or only have her one afternoon/week or supervised contact (due to being an alcoholic) or whatever, either way it might mean you and your parents barely see your niece anymore.

In turn, the mum needs to step up as a parent as well. She has a lot to lose as well, as do her parents, who seem to be enabling her just as yours are enabling your brother. But that is not your concern.

The doll's house is neither here nor there. If you can't get your brother to step up, you might soon no longer be able to see your niece at all, and having a toy in a house she hardly ever visits would be fairly pointless ...

So the child's mum technically has her four nights (Monday to Friday), and the child's dad has her three nights (Friday to Monday).

Well technically but no - she has her 2 nights and dad has her 1 and the other 4 nights are split between 2 sets of grandparents. Every single week not just as a sleepover situation

I've seen so many threads on here where someone has been upset about 50:50 care arrangements and pointed out that it is to reduce/ cancel out maintenance rather than 'spend time with' as the child is being dished out to ex's new partner/ ex's parents and the general replies have been far less than sympathetic that it's ex's time they are entitled to want 50:50, they are entitled to arrange childcare as they see fit, when the OP is available and wanting to spend that time with their own child and the other parent would be spending no extra time with them while his new partner plays Mummies.

This is like the exact opposite the two parents have almost a 50:50 set up and are both leaning on their own parents to fill in the gaps during their time and there's outcry that the child's care is being spread thinly across everyone.

This is really sad to read about. It’s good that your DNiece has DGPs and an aunt who really love her, but the parents really need to step up. The doll’s house, swimming and holidays really are a red herring in all this.

@Anotheruser02 you make a really good point. I hadn't actually thought of this aspect, or fully understood the living arrangements properly, I'm still not sure I really understand where the child sleeps each night bar the 2 spent with her Mum which are at maternal Gran's house.

I'm a single Mum and I lean hugely on my parents so I can work but to minimize the impact on my child and provide stability, I live with my parents (child was an infant when ex left). DC has 2 beds on in grandparents where we live and one in her Dad's home. Ex argued this made me unfit in court and thus he should get residence or at a min. 50/50... He got EOW in term. During this time ex 'outsources' time with DC to his new wife despite being only on weekends, when he does not work.. I've seem similar threads to those you mention which advocate for equal split yet are effectively the same pass the parcel arrangement as outlined here. Any suggestion against 'fair allocation' (regardless of who cares for the child) is met often with vitriol.

This kid is probably going to have your parents or her nan as primary attachment figures (or else a very insecure attachment style). If there is a future falling out or if/when she can't spend as much time there, then there will literally be a hole in her emotional life. Believe me, I have seen teens with primary attachments to their grandparents because they looked after them a lot when they were tiny and it creates so much distress , but of course they don't understand why because everyone just sees it as childcare. She needs to be with mum and nan half the week and dad and your parents half the week, ideally forget overnights with grandad and stop nursery for now to calm her life down and reduce transitions. I would not hesitate to raise your concerns with social care or nursery. Just because she is good it doesn't mean she isn't suffering.

@Anotheruser02

I've seen so many threads on here where someone has been upset about 50:50 care arrangements and pointed out that it is to reduce/ cancel out maintenance rather than 'spend time with' as the child is being dished out to ex's new partner/ ex's parents and the general replies have been far less than sympathetic that it's ex's time they are entitled to want 50:50, they are entitled to arrange childcare as they see fit, when the OP is available and wanting to spend that time with their own child and the other parent would be spending no extra time with them while his new partner plays Mummies. This is like the exact opposite the two parents have almost a 50:50 set up and are both leaning on their own parents to fill in the gaps during their time and there's outcry that the child's care is being spread thinly across everyone.

You really can’t see the difference in 50/50 between two parents with the occasional babysitting/sleepover thrown in, and a child living weekly between four houses?

If you arent or are unable to take your child to certain things and have willing gp or aunties why would you stop child, a holiday yes maybe whilst young but then personally if my child wanted to go i would probably let them
I had my first holiday abroad without my parents with my auntie and cousins .
If you haven't taken your kid swimming by 4 you really can't be that bothered about taking them swimming for first time
The dolls house may be as its a bigger present , could you suggest that you maybe include mums bake on the gift and that it is staying at gp or would mum accept the gift if it was allowed to go to her house ??
Maybe she feels she doesn't have as much for her at her house as she does at others
But seems both your neices parents need to step up and parent her a little more rather than relying in gp's but then demanding what they do or don't do and your brother could say he allows gp to do grotto or whatever as he does surely get a say also

I don't really understand the 'firsts' business; if you wrk you are going to miss lots of 'firsts' are you going to reduce your child's
Opportunities for your own pleasure?
You DN is not being put first by either of her parents but luckily has a loving wider family. I would say that while she is with her father's family he/ they should make choices and likewise when she is with her DM and her parents they make choices. It sounds as if the DM feels as if it has to be a competition and is perhaps too immature to put her daughter before her own family.btw going away on holiday probably should be agreed upon by both parents but there is no reason why DM gets the first trip away rather than DF. What a sad situation.