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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Blaming Labour

441 replies

InsanityRocks · 24/10/2020 21:08

Time and time again I see here that the only reason people voted for the tories was because 'anti-semite/terrorist/bad dresser Corbyn' AIBU to think that all these people voted for the racist/misogynist/self-serving Johnson knowing he is all these things as all his views come straight out his mouth, yet the anti Corbyn stuff is hearsay from the press/Russian bots/SM etc.

I don't think Corbyn would have made a good prime minister necessarily, he is too passionate, too idealistic. However, for all those saying he should have stepped down: he won more people to join the Labour Party than ever before, there was the beginning of a movement for change, real change. But members of Momentum joined to deliberately sabotage, along with the constant hum of how evil this man is, how dangerous from the right-wing big business and newspaper owners along with a growing feeling of mistrust manufactured by Russian social media destabilisation all conspired to make sure he failed.

We are all hating what is happening in this country now, but for the moment, the best way to tackle it is through socialism and inclusion. People seemed so scared of socialism, is it because it gets confused with communism? For covid and climate change and unemployment and mental health support and education and the NHS and all the other major issues that face us as a society at the moment, we need to work as a team, surely?

OP posts:
TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 21:47

They didn't include men with women, again, talking bollocks. They confirmed that they wouldn't change laws on women only spaces, meaning that they would remain women only.

Its fine, you chose not to vote Labour, but really, the reasons are bullshit when held up to examination.

I've backed my points with evidence regarding the vote, the seats that Labour lost in and their brexit vote.

You can try to find your reasons not for voting Labour, and then to make an excuse still to blame labour for how things are going now, but as I said that just allows you to absolve yourself from the impact of what you chose to vote for.

Its all Labour's fault of course.

Clavinova · 26/10/2020 21:52

Except she accurately used the data, unlike you.

2011 data. She obviously didn't look a few miles down the road towards Merthyr Tydfil.

Gurufloof · 26/10/2020 21:52

Its all Labour's fault of course

But I never said it's all labours fault.
You obviously know nothing of the trans rights issue, if you did you wouldnt bandy around shite about female only spaces.
When female/woman includes the sex class man, it's no longer single sex.
Anyway you really are coming across as absolutely no reason is good enough. So I bow out.

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 21:55

She wasnt using the data for Myrthr tbough was she. But the data for there shows 94.7 percent UK born. Wow so much immigration

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 21:56

Currently are female only spaces legally female only? Did Labour say they would change the law to allow men in?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/10/2020 22:04

Labour lost seats that they took for granted ... It was a huge shock even John McDonnell admitted they got it all so very very wrong

I always thought this one of the few sensible things he ever said, though I admit I was surprised
It made me wonder if he regarded the campaign as merely some mad Marxist experiment ...

Clavinova · 26/10/2020 22:23

Wow so much immigration

From a low base, yes.
BBC 2015;
"Merthyr has seen the biggest percentage rise in immigrant population in Wales, and between 2001 and 2011 had the second biggest percentage rise in the UK."

"Many of the incomers were attracted by work at the St Merryn Meats processing plant in the town."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-32693480

Morsmordre · 26/10/2020 22:25

@KnightsofColumbusThatHurt

Great posts *@Goosefoot*.

And 'sneering' is exactly the right word to describe how the Labour Party has been towards its traditional core voters over the last few years.

Of course people can carry on denying all this, they can continue to stick their fingers in their ears and say Lalalala.... Right wing press.... Lalalala... People are too stupid to know what's good for them... Lalalala.... If you don't subscribe to our purity politics you are a thick ignorant bigot and we don't want you anyway.....

Carry on doing that if you want. But it's not going to get Labour back in power any time soon.

Pretty much this!
Goosefoot · 26/10/2020 22:29

And the fact that Labour said they would keep all female spaces.

Yes, women found it very comforting when it was made clear that female spaces be preserved meant women's prisons including women with penises.

You can tell voters all day that they have voted wrong but it's not likely to make them change their views.

derxa · 26/10/2020 22:35

And the fact that Labour said they would keep all female spaces.
And yet we had nonsense from Dawn Butler that male giraffes are gay
www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2019/oct/29/99-per-cent-giraffes-gay-loving-looks-misunderstood
Just why? Corbyn should have shut this drivel down but he didn't

littlebillie · 26/10/2020 22:48
Biscuit
KnightsofColumbusThatHurt · 26/10/2020 22:49

They didn't include men with women, again, talking bollocks. They confirmed that they wouldn't change laws on women only spaces, meaning that they would remain women only.

Labour have been pushing for reform to the GRA - this reform would mean that any male could 'self identify' as female with absolutely no checks or balances, and would have the legal rights that are currently reserved for women. Currently, single sex spaces are protected in the Equality Act as an exemption, so even those with a GRC may not be able to access them in certain situations. However, Stonewall, a lobby group that Labour seem to be very much in support of, are currently campaigning for these exemptions to be abolished, meaning that women would not legally ever be entitled to any single sex spaces.

And while we are thinking about the transgender issue, and what changed between 2017 and 2019, in 2018 there was quite the row in the party about the fact that Labour's 'all women shortlists' are (and continue to be) open to "self identifying women' ie. Males. The last couple of years have opened many peoples eyes to the misogyny within the Labour Party, both in terms of their policies, and how their representatives have responded to women who have concerns about this issue. Whether this was a big enough issue to actually make a difference to the 2019 election, I don't really know, but I do know that a lot of traditionally left leaning, Labour voting women, have been horrified by what they have seen (check out #labourlosingwomen on twitter!)

Clavinova · 26/10/2020 22:57

Despite being in the doghouse at the moment, Ben Bradley has written a sensible piece here;

"Voters tore down the Red Wall because they were sick of Labour talking down to them and holding them back." ...

"Since I was elected in 2017 I’ve been at pains to try and explain the difference between Labour voters in Islington and in Mansfield. It’s not ideological up north, it’s historic." ...

"It made sense in many ways, to back the “party of the workers” when you felt your conditions were poor. It wasn’t an ideological commitment to socialism, it was about improving life for you and your family, about getting on and a sense of community. It was an innately conservative stance, actually, wanting to be rewarded for your work and aspiring to a better life for your family," ...

"From an ideological perspective if you’re going to be a socialist you have to be able to afford it! You have to have enough money already to not be concerned about the state taking more away." ...

"If you’re scrapping around to put food on the table, the idea of having more taken from you to fund others when you are the one grafting 50 hours a week is horrifying. It’s not pro-worker, it’s hitting the workers the hardest."

"Labour doesn’t get that any more. It looks down on working people rather than helping them up. It calls for an end to aspiration and self-improvement. The message is “don’t save or train for a new job or buy a house. There is no point. You are too downtrodden and the rich elites will never let you.”

"If you’re struggling, you want hope, not misery. A hand up not a hand out. You don’t want to be told that the whole system is rigged against you, you want to see that there are opportunities to be seized and a chance to make things better. Labour in places like Mansfield have spent decades harking back instead of looking forwards. When I stood in 2017, my Labour opponent, the MP of 30 years, said “it will just remind people about what Mrs Thatcher did”. As it happens I think people were sick of being reminded. It was before I was born! People want to move on and are fed up with politicians blaming people instead of acting. There’s only so long you can moan about the past when you’re failing to do anything to take us forward." ...

"Even Brexit falls in to that argument, too. These communities voted to Leave, just to be told they were wrong, thick, racist. That they were condemned to misery and failure as a result, and that Labour refused to deliver it. Lecturing instead of listening. We’re hearing the same narrative now from left-wing figures; ‘‘the right-wing MSM have duped these working class people, they can’t think for themselves and they’ll regret it’’.

"So far, Labour haven’t learned from their mistake. They are responding in the same way they responded to defeat in the referendum, and without accepting the blame for their failures they’ll only repeat the cycle. They have to look at themselves. They need to understand these reasons that they lost, not just blame the media and ‘stupid voters’. If they keep saying ‘our message was right but people didn’t understand’ or that is was just solely about Corbyn and not about their wider offering, they will struggle to recover."

"Don’t get me wrong: we’ve not turned everyone in the North East in to hardcore Tories. For many it was a tough thing to vote blue; for many we were the least-worst option. The good news is that we are saying the right things, but we are not trusted. No politicians are trusted right now. Come the next election Brexit will not be there, Corbyn will not be there. It remains to be seen if we’ll face a competent Labour Party or not."

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/12/ben-bradley-voters-tore-down-the-red-wall-because-they-were-sick-of-labour-talking-down-to-them-and-holding-them-back.html

Blackberrycream · 26/10/2020 23:05

@FractionalGains

I couldn’t vote for Jeremy Corbyn because of his position on anti-semitism and because he has an IRA apologist as his deputy.

But I didn’t vote for boris Johnson either. There are a lot of people like me who wouldn’t vote Tory but didn’t feel able to vote for Labour under Corbyn.

This was the case for many of my friends and family who would previously have been labour voters. Anti semitism was clearly at the very least tolerated under his leadership. I actually find it galling that some people still won’t accept what was happening.The many whistleblowers and individuals who spoke about their experience are still just dismissed as having an agenda. All working together, all the same, with an agenda. Hmmm. When people say that they are experiencing racism and being bullied out of the party’s they did, I think we should listen.
Blackberrycream · 26/10/2020 23:08

Sorry for the garbled ending there ...

LangClegsInSpace · 27/10/2020 01:39

I couldn't bring myself to vote labour because so many party activists came across like TomMRiddle (but with an added dose of TWAW).

Honestly, wtf did they expect?

womansplaceuk.org/2019/09/26/a-womans-place-is-at-conference/

No it wasn't all about brexit and no we didn't all vote tory instead.

sashagabadon · 27/10/2020 08:03

I have read this thread with interest as I am a former labour voter and I have to say Tomriddle is one of the reason why I did not vote labour in Dec. Obviously a pro Corbin labour activist , rude, patronising and dismissive of concerns. And yes labour were/ are going to remove females single sex spaces- they consider trans women to be of the female sex. It’s dishonest word play.

bellinisurge · 27/10/2020 08:14

"Antisemitism has been dealt with"
Now those twats have been dumped off the Labour Front bench back into the obscurity they deserve. JC didn't deal with it.

Friendsoftheearth · 27/10/2020 08:18

I would be terrified if Corbyn was 'in charge' right now, absolutely terrified. He does not have the skillset, the leadership skills nor the ability to manage such huge challenges. He was struggling just to get through PM questions, quite how he would cope with covid and something of this magnitude does not bear thinking about.

I don't think the current government have coped with this flawlessly - and they have definitely made mistakes, but given the two options I am very relieved.

Friendsoftheearth · 27/10/2020 08:20

I am a green party member btw and usually vote Labour when there is a leader worth voting for. I am still on the fence about Keir Starmer. This is not the massive revolution I was hoping for. At all.

LemonTT · 27/10/2020 08:40

TomRiddle is more likely a member of the Tory Party given the excellent work he has done on here ensuring those who stopped supporting labour never return.

NoWordForFluffy · 27/10/2020 09:01

Corbyn was one of a few reasons that Labour didn't win. Labour List acknowledges this.

Blaming Labour
user1471565182 · 27/10/2020 10:56

Not sure why labour would include the views of priti patel in their manifesto, Clavinova?

If you're going to do the mass copy paste thing, can you actually read what you're posting for once rather than just posting a load of shit that contradicts you. Or I dont know, do something mad like share your own view?

InsanityRocks · 27/10/2020 11:14

@Friendsoftheearth

I would be terrified if Corbyn was 'in charge' right now, absolutely terrified. He does not have the skillset, the leadership skills nor the ability to manage such huge challenges. He was struggling just to get through PM questions, quite how he would cope with covid and something of this magnitude does not bear thinking about.

I don't think the current government have coped with this flawlessly - and they have definitely made mistakes, but given the two options I am very relieved.

Are you happy with the way the tories are handling climate change? Happy with their environment policy? Happy with HS2? I find it odd you would be terrified of Corbyn and you're not scared of what this government is doing to our environment as a Green Party member.
OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/10/2020 11:19

"So far, Labour haven’t learned from their mistake. They are responding in the same way they responded to defeat in the referendum, and without accepting the blame for their failures they’ll only repeat the cycle. They have to look at themselves. They need to understand these reasons that they lost, not just blame the media and ‘stupid voters’. If they keep saying ‘our message was right but people didn’t understand’ or that is was just solely about Corbyn and not about their wider offering, they will struggle to recover"

Well said Ben Bradley
In fairness it can't be easy for the Hard Left to acknowledge what a hash they've made of things - it never is easy to accept you've failed - but until they do there's a very real chance of this going on and on and us all being stuck with a one party state

Which is no real use to anyone ...

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