To be angry with DH, or am I overreacting?

[RockWrass]

Nc as I like my other username and don't want to be outed!

For context:
DD is 9 months. She's in a brilliant routine of
5.30pm - tea followed by bath/teeth/moisturiser/clean nappy/PJs
6.30 - 7pm - watches In The Night Garden/plays/reads books
7ish - breastfed
7.15 - put in her sleeping bag, read a final story
7.30 - asleep in her cot.

When following this routine, she generally wakes for a feed at 12ish, I bring her into our bed where she sleeps through until 5ish, has a quick feed and back to sleep until 7.30am. DH and I know that deviating from this routine means zero sleep and he, being self employed and WFH, knows this routine inside out.

Yesterday I had to be out of the house at an appointment. I left at 4.30pm and was back at 6.20pm.

Walked in and she was fast asleep on DH "having a nap." Apparently she was grouchy so he thought she needed a sleep before bed and bounced her until she went off at 6pm

She wasn't in her sleeping bag, she'd not had any milk (there is a stash in the freezer DH could have given her). DH was really pleased with himself. 10 mins later she woke up. I tried to feed her, put her in her bag, get her back off to sleep but after her power nap she was wide awake.

I then felt she was wet. Took her PJs off to find her nappy on back to front and it had leaked.
DH then said he'd fed her tea at 5pm, half an hour before she usually has it, as he thought she was grumpy. It later transpired that he'd not brushed her teeth or moisturised her (she's prone to eczema so that's important!).

He maintained that she was really grouchy and grumpy and he felt stressed. I asked him why he thought this was and he said, "no idea, I was on FaceTime to ILs the whole time and they didn't know either." I asked how long he was on FaceTime to them - he checked his call log - almost 30 mins in total, between 4.30pm and 6pm, when he put her off to sleep.

I was really cross and suggested that perhaps she was grouchy because, instead of interacting with her, reading with her and playing, he just shoved a camera in her face.

She then didn't go off to sleep until 10pm and woke up every 1hr 30. Who was up with her all night.... me.

I'm so angry because, IMO, for the 2hrs I was out, DH couldn't provide the minimum care for our daughter, probably because he was too busy playing Disney dad and showing off to ILs about what a brilliant dad he is.

We've had a huge argument and he's stormed off out for the day. He feels I'm overreacting. I feel really upset because, on the rare occasion I need to do something, I can't count on him to care for DD properly.

So - nest of vipers, reassure me that what I'm feeling is valid... or am I massively overreacting here?

You do realise @ pumperthepumper that it is possible to state very clearly that you expect him to do his share of nappies but still change them all if he refuses? In the face of refusal you take other action such as refusal to cook his meals, withholding sex or divorcing him (I’d go for the latter). Whatever works for you. There are plenty of ways to make the point clear without neglecting the baby.

"the moisturiser and teeth weren't a problem because I was home and did it anyway."

There it is - the reason they weren't done is he sees them as YOUR job.

@CheetasOnFajitas

You do realise @ pumperthepumper that it is possible to state very clearly that you expect him to do his share of nappies but still change them all if he refuses? In the face of refusal you take other action such as refusal to cook his meals, withholding sex or divorcing him (I’d go for the latter). Whatever works for you. There are plenty of ways to make the point clear without neglecting the baby.

What absolutely bizarre relationships you must have @CheetasOnFajitas if you think sex is a reward for basic parenting. Or that men don’t want to look after their babies unless there’s something in it for them - dinner or sex (both wifework, obviously).

These things aren’t connected, I promise.

You’re being ridiculous again. My point is that you use whatever power you have to change his behaviour or you separate from him. For some, that power would be to withhold something he enjoys; sex is just an example, particularly because people generally don’t like to have sex with others who don’t respect them, so it might make him realise how disrespectful it is to refuse to change a nappy. It’s not a reward scenario if he DOES perform his basic obligations, for goodness sake. Anyway, if it got to the stage of point blank refusal when a clear request was made I, personally, would be ending the relationship. However I would forgive him if I had to ask (once), as long as he immediately apologised and stepped up.

However some women are conditioned to think that it’s OK for men not to do these things because it’s traditional. So they don’t even get as far as insisting on it. That’s their choice, but they can’t then complain about the situation they find themselves in.

And, I emphasise here, my whole point for the last however many posts has been confined to the issues of nappy changing. That is so simple that it requires zero tolerance.

@CheetasOnFajitas

You’re being ridiculous again. My point is that you use whatever power you have to change his behaviour or you separate from him. For some, that power would be to withhold something he enjoys; sex is just an example, particularly because people generally don’t like to have sex with others who don’t respect them, so it might make him realise how disrespectful it is to refuse to change a nappy. It’s not a reward scenario if he DOES perform his basic obligations, for goodness sake. Anyway, if it got to the stage of point blank refusal when a clear request was made I, personally, would be ending the relationship. However I would forgive him if I had to ask (once), as long as he immediately apologised and stepped up.

However some women are conditioned to think that it’s OK for men not to do these things because it’s traditional. So they don’t even get as far as insisting on it. That’s their choice, but they can’t then complain about the situation they find themselves in.

And, I emphasise here, my whole point for the last however many posts has been confined to the issues of nappy changing. That is so simple that it requires zero tolerance.

I think it’s very obvious that it’s not me who’s the ridiculous one.

Mothers absolutely can complain if the fathers don’t look after their own children. It’s not women’s fault or responsibility to teach men how to care for their own children. They also deserve the respect of not being called martyrs for caring for their own children.

@CheetasOnFajitas

You’re being ridiculous again. My point is that you use whatever power you have to change his behaviour or you separate from him. For some, that power would be to withhold something he enjoys; sex is just an example, particularly because people generally don’t like to have sex with others who don’t respect them, so it might make him realise how disrespectful it is to refuse to change a nappy. It’s not a reward scenario if he DOES perform his basic obligations, for goodness sake. Anyway, if it got to the stage of point blank refusal when a clear request was made I, personally, would be ending the relationship. However I would forgive him if I had to ask (once), as long as he immediately apologised and stepped up.

However some women are conditioned to think that it’s OK for men not to do these things because it’s traditional. So they don’t even get as far as insisting on it. That’s their choice, but they can’t then complain about the situation they find themselves in.

And, I emphasise here, my whole point for the last however many posts has been confined to the issues of nappy changing. That is so simple that it requires zero tolerance.

Good lord really? You think withholding sex will 'change his behaviour'?? What a bizarre way to have a relationship.

This thread has become more and more bizarre. Infantilising a grown man by removing their privileges like you would a naughty child in order to 'change their behaviour' towards parenting is just bonkers.

Good luck OP, I think you'll be just fine tbh. Your baby is clearly very well cared for either way.

What would you do then @GuyFawkesHadTheRightIdea?

Just on let him crack on being a lazy arse who won’t deal with a shitty nappy, and shagging him on demand?

I left mine @CheetasOnFajitas when my DD was 3 months old. He was absolutely useless from day one despite having done a parenting class whilst I was pregnant. He was disinterested and aggressive and increasingly frustrated when I tried to get him to step up. But the last thing I'd have done is start withholding privileges like some kind of naughty kid. I already had children to parent, I wasn't going to start parenting him too.

However this just isn't the case with OP. She has, from what I've read here, monopolised the care of her baby and even says herself she had everything prepared for him while she went out. She's micromanaged to the point where he clearly doesn't feel trusted to do things his own way. There are TWO parents in this scenario and for the last 9 months only ONE (OP) seems to have made the decisions on how their baby should be cared for wrt routine etc. Personally I think if she eases up a bit and he gets to actually feel like a parent, he'll soon get the hang of it.

Still her fault that he hasn’t changed a dirty nappy in nine months, though? The OP says the routine evolved with both of them, with time. She says he knows the routine. She also says the routine isn’t set in stone - it’s that he can’t be trusted to do the most basic, basic care for his baby. So she has to do it.

I never characterised sex as a “privilege”. I said that it is about sending the message that you are not willing to have sex with someone who respects you so little. I’m not sure that I would characterise anything that one partner does for /with another as a “privilege”. However, demonstrating, rather than just saying, that if he continues to act this way you are no longer willing to participate in the other elements of a relationship which involve give and take is, in my view, a perfectly sensible way to bring home the importance of what he is refusing to do. Anyone who tries to compare it to not giving sweeties to a naughty child is over-simplifying. You’d know pretty quickly whether it was going to drive the message home and after that it’s game over. I’m glad you showed yours the door.

Mothers absolutely can complain if the fathers don’t look after their own children. It’s not women’s fault or responsibility to teach men how to care for their own children. They also deserve the respect of not being called martyrs for caring for their own children.

In the past, and still in some cultures, it was/is considered entirely normal for a man not to ever change a nappy. It’s therefore not completely unknown for a man to assume that the mother should do all this, or that she will want to do it all. I think a man who assumes this would be a twat who has been living under a rock, but I can see how it happens. Therefore I would argue that any woman who wants a man to change nappies should tell him so. OP does not appear to have done this. Perhaps she really doesn’t care if he does so or not. But in that case she can hardly be surprised when he won’t step up in other ways either.

Therefore I would argue that any woman who wants a man to change nappies should tell him so

Still her responsibility then?

How likely is it, in Britain, in October 2020, that there is a man who doesn’t know babies dirty nappies need changed? Who actually wants to change dirty nappies?

It’s absolutely bizarre to pretend that she wanted to do it all, and it’s her fault for not telling him it needed to be done. It’s bizarre to pretend that she’s the Head Parent and he needs to be taught.

@Pumperthepumper *I’m using your words. It’s ironic that you’d call the OP a martyr for doing all the dirty nappies when you left the bulk of them to your husband. He’s not a martyr though. I’m going to presume logic isn’t your strong suit.

He’s just a shit father. That’s the basic line. You don’t have to name-call OP to make that a fact*.

a). I have not called the OP a Martyr. Show me where I did.
b). I never said I left a bulk of dirty nappies to my DH. Show me where I did.
c). I don't dispute the OP's DH's parenting skills leave a lot to be desired. Never said that wasn't the case. Show me where I did.
d). I did not ever call the OP a name. Show me where I did.
e). The one thing I did say is if she does everything by herself she'll do everything by herself.

So no, you are not using my wording. But thanks.

[quote Faultymain5]**@Pumperthepumper* I’m using your words. It’s ironic that you’d call the OP a martyr for doing all the dirty nappies when you left the bulk of them to your husband. He’s not a martyr though. I’m going to presume logic isn’t your strong suit.

He’s just a shit father. That’s the basic line. You don’t have to name-call OP to make that a fact*.

a). I have not called the OP a Martyr. Show me where I did.
b). I never said I left a bulk of dirty nappies to my DH. Show me where I did.
c). I don't dispute the OP's DH's parenting skills leave a lot to be desired. Never said that wasn't the case. Show me where I did.
d). I did not ever call the OP a name. Show me where I did.
e). The one thing I did say is if she does everything by herself she'll do everything by herself.

So no, you are not using my wording. But thanks.[/quote]
I can’t do this on my phone for all of them but here’s b)

Oh and I didn't like pooey nappies, which is why it was taken in turns with my DH (and by in turns, I mean he mostly did them). So yes she's hogging the pooey nappies. Martyrdom doesn't suit me, so I refused to be one.

And actually, also a) if you read that as you’d never be in the same position as the OP.

[quote Faultymain5]**@Pumperthepumper* I’m using your words. It’s ironic that you’d call the OP a martyr for doing all the dirty nappies when you left the bulk of them to your husband. He’s not a martyr though. I’m going to presume logic isn’t your strong suit.

He’s just a shit father. That’s the basic line. You don’t have to name-call OP to make that a fact*.

a). I have not called the OP a Martyr. Show me where I did.
b). I never said I left a bulk of dirty nappies to my DH. Show me where I did.
c). I don't dispute the OP's DH's parenting skills leave a lot to be desired. Never said that wasn't the case. Show me where I did.
d). I did not ever call the OP a name. Show me where I did.
e). The one thing I did say is if she does everything by herself she'll do everything by herself.

So no, you are not using my wording. But thanks.[/quote]
C) here at 10.16

Your DH is not the problem you are.

How likely is it, in Britain, in October 2020, that there is a man who doesn’t know babies dirty nappies need changed? Who actually wants to change dirty nappies?

Bloody hell we’ve been through this! Everyone, male and female, knows nappies need to be changed. Some men assume it is not their job. Some men pretend not to know they should be doing it. In any scenario where someone is not doing something, for whatever reason, it’s generally an idea to ask them to do it before you complain about them not doing it.

[quote Faultymain5]**@Pumperthepumper* I’m using your words. It’s ironic that you’d call the OP a martyr for doing all the dirty nappies when you left the bulk of them to your husband. He’s not a martyr though. I’m going to presume logic isn’t your strong suit.

He’s just a shit father. That’s the basic line. You don’t have to name-call OP to make that a fact*.

a). I have not called the OP a Martyr. Show me where I did.
b). I never said I left a bulk of dirty nappies to my DH. Show me where I did.
c). I don't dispute the OP's DH's parenting skills leave a lot to be desired. Never said that wasn't the case. Show me where I did.
d). I did not ever call the OP a name. Show me where I did.
e). The one thing I did say is if she does everything by herself she'll do everything by herself.

So no, you are not using my wording. But thanks.[/quote]
Found another one for a)

She's playing martyr cause she's letting him get away with it.

@CheetasOnFajitas

How likely is it, in Britain, in October 2020, that there is a man who doesn’t know babies dirty nappies need changed? Who actually wants to change dirty nappies?

Bloody hell we’ve been through this! Everyone, male and female, knows nappies need to be changed. Some men assume it is not their job. Some men pretend not to know they should be doing it. In any scenario where someone is not doing something, for whatever reason, it’s generally an idea to ask them to do it before you complain about them not doing it.

So still her responsibility?

Yes! How many more ways can I say it?

@CheetasOnFajitas

Yes! How many more ways can I say it?

Why?

So, just to get this right Cheese - the baby is the OP’s responsibility, not the fathers. She is a martyr for changing all the nappies because he doesn’t know babies need changed, but she shouldn’t stop changing them, but she should still teach him a lesson by withholding sex until he does it?

Was annoying yes but it's difficult looking after a fully breastfed baby I look after my grandkids sometimes and they are searching to feed . I'd cut him some slack but remind him what happened next time . They change their ways so much at this age anyway .

I presume you are talking to me, despite the random mention of cheese.

A baby is the responsibility of both parents. If a woman thinks her husband is not sharing the parenting as she would wish then it is her responsibility to raise this with him and tell him how she would like things to be shared. If he refuses then it’s up to her what she does to persuade or convince but she needs to do something to address the breathtaking disrespect that a refusal would entail. If he continues to refuse then she has 2 option- throw him out or come to terms with being with a lazy twat.

By the way, where nappies are concerned, OP has come to terms with it. She has accepted the “I didn’t have enough paternity leave” excuse. Most would think it was a pretty lame excuse but she seems to be fine with it. My original point is that this has set a pattern for future conflict, as illustrated by the scenario she posted about.

Once again, if she had gone zero tolerance on nappy changing then she might not have had problems with general inability to parent now. Not a given, but it would have set the tone. She failed to set the tone and is now complaining that he is incapable.

What is the scenario where he is a neglectful parent? At what point does it stop being all the OP’s fault that he doesn’t care for his own baby?

@Pumperthepumper Totally agree wit everything you say, this especially.

So much enabling of him in being a lazy git on this thread. Cant remember which poster said about him "volunteering" to change a nappy. Volunteering??! Does the mum generally volunteer? No we just pick baby up and get on with it. Why doesnt he?