This is a bad reason to reject a potential secondary school, isn’t it?

[Bvop]

Went to a virtual open evening at a local girls’ school last night and I very quickly got a gut feeling it wasn’t the right place for DD. The thing that tipped my opinion was that the head of year was wearing an absolute face full of makeup, false lashes, eyeshadow, lips, cheeks and the works, and the head was similar. The head girl was similar but without the false lashes. I know I am judging, and I know things go deeper than looks but also I don’t want my dd to have this as the exemplar during her time at school. AIBU to strike this school off the list of potentials for this reason?

The headteacher and head of year? How many on SLT? How many heads of department and pastoral leaders? Those poor women, just trying to look decent on zoom after a crap half term and vilified for making an effort!

Apologies if this has been said before, as I have not RTFT. It's fine for teachers to present their best face at all times as they are there in a professional capacity, but I would be concerned to think that there's a big beauty and selfie culture in the school, especially if my DD were a slightly innocent happy blue-stocking.

It wouldn't bother me one iota how they looked.. {Slap or no slap}

It is what comes out of their mouths that matters.

Sounds like St Trinians?

Girls just wear more make up now. If this is the only thing putting you off, you may regret ruling out the school when you later realise this!

I see the girls go in to the top girls schools in Ireland every morning and they have a fair bit of make up. They still CLEAN up in the points race. I know that's not the be and end all. But it'd be naive to think 'oh a naicer' school would only have scrubbed cheek bare face natural girls. My own daughter goes to a less good girls' school but it's still good, encouraged to do physics and honours maths. They all wear more make up and younger than we did in the 80s and 90s.

I have no issue with women wearing make up,it doesn’t render one thick or inarticulate
A make up free woman is no more worthy than a made up woman
Let’s not immediately berate women for their appearance

@Bvop

Nope, not looking for an excuse to be judgemental, just that I am being honest with myself about what put me off the school. My dd isn’t into frills and ribbons and lip gloss, and I want her to go to a school where she can be herself. We’ve seen a couple of other girls’ schools where the pupils and teachers were well presented but not made up, and a few mixed schools, so we have plenty of other options.

She's coming up 11 years old. Of course she isn't into that stuff yet.

Probably will be by the age of 14, though. Especially if she goes to a school where it isn't allowed at all, even on staff.

I can see where you're coming from. Maybe do some more research? Have a look at their Facebook and Twitter page. And their uniform policy. Is it no make up? In which case the head girl was probably having her day in the sun.

There haven't been many opportunities to dress up recently so maybe they just went over the top a bit?

If all the pics on Twitter showed girls all dressed up with designer handbags then I'd be concerned about it being a school full of mean girls but if not then they've probably just left a poor first impression.

Is it worth calling and asking? Was the excessive makeup due to the filming and virtual event, or do they ordinarily wear conspicuous amounts of makeup?

Good on you forget things like results ,attendance and ratings go for the important stuff like the teacher make up to make you sessions about your DD education .

Most of the teachers at my all-girls high school were what would have been termed 'frumpy' back in the day. Even the younger ones - think 'scrubbed' faces and weird, unfashionable clothes and hair styles. It was as though they'd never been in the real world at all, which thinking about it, they probably hadn't.

Being teenage girls and therefore naturally prone to be judgemental about such things, we mocked these teachers behind their backs for the way they dressed and found it difficult to take them seriously. But when I started 6th form we got a new HoD in one of the subjects I was studying. She was early-mid 30s, super glamorous with long hair, lots of make-up and the trendy clothes of the day. In modern terms it was like Kim Kardashian had walked into the school! She was an absolute breath of fresh air and we adored her.

I wore makeup, outside school, from about age 15 but there were other girls who wore it in school and crazy nails etc - I never did any of that, but this glamorous teacher was absolutely my role model, not for the way she looked as such, but for the fact that she seemed so modern and outward looking compared to all the other teachers, who seemed like fossils by comparison. I went on to do the same uni course that this teacher had done (and to wear make-up for most of my life, but that was the influence of my DM and not the teacher).

Sadly your DD is way more likely to be influenced, as regards her appearance, by peers and social media, and just because she isn't into makeup NOW (presumably age 11 ish) doesn't mean she won't be later, especially if she develops acne and gets self-conscious about it. Most young girls want to look nice, it's not a crime. And most would probably prefer a teacher whom they can see as 'relatable'.

I would not be keen on a school that put a huge amount of emphasis on presentation, especially presentation that was heavily weighted towards artificial, costly (time and money), gendered ideas of how women should look. Partly because one of the advantages of a girls-school when they work well (and not all girls-schools do better than mixed-schools) is the removal of that sort of pressure and partly because I think at least one of my daughters would feel really out of place.

But it’s problematic to make that sort of judgement on the basis of one virtual meeting. You really need to see what the girls look like going into the school on a normal school day to see what the culture of the school is like. Is it possible to take a drive near the school at the start or end of the school day?

What a ridiculous reason to reject a school. Most parents would focus on past performance, Ofsted reports, not make up on a virtual tour surely.

Make up choices wouldn't be a deal breaker for me personally.

@fallfallfall

Are you joking or stirring? Ring up and ask them how much make up they normally wear. How bloody rude. The OP isn't the make up police and they don't have to please her. If she is shallow and judges them on their make up, then best she stays away really. No-one wants a sour puss who thinks women should be fresh faced if they are intelligent.

I know a stupid woman who wears no make up. I can find out if she's runningsome sort of dame school for you if you like!

So they are doing a virtual meeting with lots of people?

They wanted to look their best by the sounds of it. Make up has made them feel more presentable as it sounds like it's a meeting with lots of people seeing them
Online.

I'm similar. Won't go to a meeting without lashes and eyebrows. I feel better if I look better and so long as I think I look better I'm not really arsed what anyone else thinks.

You can be glam and professional and good at your job. And be non glam and professional and good at your job.

Don't forget, you look different on camera and I have a resting bitch face so the lashes help me look not as miserable!

I know the kind of makeup you mean.

Surprised to hear it is so common for high achievers in STEM and women with ‘degrees coming out of their arses’ to be wearing false eyelashes in a professional context.

That’s not been my experience at all, 15 years into my science-based profession in which possessing four degrees is not unusual.

I don’t think I’d reject the school over it but it would certainly surprise me and be at odds with my professional experience.

@rashalert, not joking. If it’s important to the OP that the people around her child be all natural and proud no harm in asking.
Doubt the professionals would be offended.

I think you will find they will be!

Would you rather she was a fat, frumpy, short haired miserable looking hag ?

I hope if there were any male teachers on the Zoom call you checked the state of their fingernails, choice of tie and whether they had clean shoes.

You sound like you paid more attention to the teacher’s appearances than you did to what they said? Which is a very poor example for your daughter unfortunately. Of course if there were other things you didn’t like about the school, that’s fair enough.

I would never judge a book by its cover. Look at other factors about the school, stuff that matters.

I find these uptight parents are the ones whose DDs turn out exactly the opposite of what their mother wants 🤣🤣
My eldest DD has a very successful career and is immaculately turned out, I’m full of admiration at her perfect makeup and brows and gorgeous hair, it doesn’t diminish her intelligence or professionalism. Women don’t need to prove themselves by being severe and plain, you can be glamorous and professional.

Of course Ofsted results are important (but I wouldn’t prioritise an Outstanding school over a Good school necessarily), as are exam results (but they often reflect intake as much as quality of teaching). But we have a good choice of selective and comprehensive schools and also independents. DD has a year to go before any selection tests so we’ll get a better idea of her chances, and hopefully look round the schools in person.

I do make judgements on appearance. You can’t choose if you’re short or tall, or pretty or ugly, or need glasses, but you can choose whether or not to use make up, and the extent to which you want to look made up or natural. I’m drawn to people like me, so I found this school less attractive and the others more attractive. It’s not something I’d dwell on with DD either. Anyhow, despite the comments, the poll is indicating IWNBU on this one.