People not understanding what no deal actually means?

[flashbac]

Do you understand what it means? For food prices, crime enforcement, things that affect you?
Think we can just trade with the rest of the world come January? Easy as that? Do WTO rules ring a bell? Pound crashing?
Or do you think sunlit uplands await you?

[quote MrsPerfect12]@Goosefoot I agree with your post. I'm happy to muddle through the mess and we'll all deal with it how we see fit. Look for the negatives and you'll find lots.[/quote]
Great so will you expect my friend on dialysis to muddle through if her life saving medication isn't available? What about people who can't afford to eat? What about people who's livelihoods have been destroyed? What about when we can't find carers for our elderly? They should muddle through? What about when we can't find emergenncy doctors for our A&E wards?

Basically you're saying you personally don't expect to be impacted and you couldn't give a toss about the risk to other people.

I have a vague idea, but can't possibly know all of the trade deals and laws we currently have or are negotiating on. I think people expecting no change at all are naïve. I just think it will be shit and chaotic, based on what I have seen from the Covid response - it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence!

Never wanted this in the first place, but maybe this will give the people who voted for it a much needed kick in the arse and a face full of humble pie when it isn't what they expect it to be. At least there's that to look forward to.

@cam77 have you googled Common Agricultural Policy Africa? What do you think about it.

And sprouting unhelful threads isn't going to make one bit of difference.

Indeed, we will be able to buy food from developing countries at a fair price rather than from the protectionist Customs Union. Those countries will be able to grow and develop. Trade, not aid.

This is mindless in the extreme. The problem is the world is just too complicated for people. They don't have a clue and don't like to admit it. They prefer to imagine their inane half baked ideas actually have some value. Which imports are you talking about that people can actually live on? Bread? Milk? Meat? Do you know what we currently eat? What percentage of it is home grown and what can be sourced from developing nations? Do you have any idea how long it would take for developing nations to suddenly and miraculously develop the infrastructure to provide our food needs? Do you know what food can even practically produced in those countries? NO idea right? Someone else will figure it all out?

@LemonTT - The majority of people wanted to leave. Just like the majority of Irish people wanted to leave the UK 100 years ago. At some point the majority of Scottish people may too. Lots of examples of people voting to leave unions which are purely driven by nationalism and sovereignty ideals.

Please don't compare Ireland 100 years ago to brexit. We were colonised violently for 100's of years. Merely "voting to leave" didn't get us very far. It required armed rebellion and even then, the country was split in a way that resulted in 3 counties with a nationalist majority being subsumed into a bigoted unionist statelet in order to maximise the size of that statelet while still ensuring a unionist majority. That statelet went on to have institutionalised discrimination against nationalists for decades.

@flashbac

Do you understand what it means? For food prices, crime enforcement, things that affect you? Think we can just trade with the rest of the world come January? Easy as that? Do WTO rules ring a bell? Pound crashing? Or do you think sunlit uplands await you?

You hardly sound impartial and able to give unbiased information to those that don’t know

@LakieLady - don't eat fox, it's poisonous to humans.

@Onedropbeat - but if the US gets its way, food will not carry a country of origin. So unless you buy direct from the farm, you'll not know whether it's from a country with good or poor food standards.

@AChickenCalledDaal me too, to the point of me wondering if No Deal is actually happening or not, as there’s been so little in the media about it.

@LemonTT - Scottish nationalism, atm, is even more bizarre. Leave the Uk and then transfer sovereignty to the EU.

You obviously don't understand how the EU works. Nobody "transfers sovereignty to the EU". It is a union of equals. Decisions are made collectively.

Looking at how England, with its large population, overwhelm any decisions made by Scotland (and the other members of the UK), I suspect Scotland would dramatically increase its sovereignty as an EU member.

"Should that be true I just won’t be buying it and sticking to Uk only meat as I always do anyway"

@Onedropbeat if we do the food deal the US wants us to do, which is looking increasingly likely, you won't know which meat is from the UK, as it will be illegal to label it with country of origin.

Just let that sink in for a minute.

You won't know where your food is coming from. UK, USA, or anywhere else.

@flashbac

Do you understand what it means? For food prices, crime enforcement, things that affect you? Think we can just trade with the rest of the world come January? Easy as that? Do WTO rules ring a bell? Pound crashing? Or do you think sunlit uplands await you?

Interesting that you have not come back to enlighten us all with your superior knowledge yet @flashbac 😂

No deal means we’re all going to die on New Year’s Eve. Yes?

Even on a personal level I've got (for example) 40+ swedes in the garden more than I'll eat this winter I'll swap with friends family who've got a glut of something else.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Do you live in a small middle class market town on the south coast by any chance? Confirmation bias? Or are you trying to tell us you have 40 Swedish people locked in your garden and are planning to resort to cannabalism to avoid eating chlorinated chicken?

If the food deal goes through with the US though I will stop eating meat. It makes me feel queasy how they treat food over there.

@justanotherneighinparadise have you watched Years and Years?

Thought that was quite a good way of showing that, like beetles, we might survive, but it would be in an increasingly fucked up world.

There's a very good reason why many of us voted REMAIN and tried to convince others- because it was obvious what would happen. There's also a very good reasons why so many rush to get the European passport they were entitled to (via Ireland or other family links)

The degree of negative impact was always depend on the so-called "deals but it was always it would be a shit storm.

People don't care, or feel they will be magically immune somehow.

The pandemic on top of it will make for very bleak years ahead. The NHS is going to be a very interesting one too for those stuck in this country.

@YellowishZebra - what do you expect your neighbours to have a glut of in winter : avocados? Tomatoes? Strawberries?

Pretty sure you can eat fox, although can't imagine it would taste great (although apparently you can make a tasty stew from badger).

@SonEtLumiere

Indeed, we will be able to buy food from developing countries at a fair price rather than from the protectionist Customs Union. Those countries will be able to grow and develop. Trade, not aid.

Do you honestly think the price of your weekly shop is going to go down? Ok the price of Mangoes might go down, but the price of milk and milk products is going to double. The price of meat is going to go up by 50% or more. How about fruit & vegetables? They are not going to get cheaper. Every non food item will go up by the amount that the value of sterling falls against the Euro.
Also when you say a „fair price“, you know that you are saying British Producers should be paid „developing countries“ prices for their goods, and by extension their services?

The value of sterling will change little, this has been priced into the marked since 2016.

I'd like to see your sources for your wild predictions about the price of milk doubling etc. Milk (in its raw state) is not generally traded internationally. We import cheese and yoghurt in significant quantities but not milk.

Still, food prices need to go up in this country. They are unsustainably low (2/3 the price you'd pay in France/Germany) which causes hardship to producers. Many costs in the UK have inflated over the decades (most notably housing) but food has lagged behind.

Facelike... Very Funny - haha!! But will about half of England want to move to Scotland when they vote to leave UK and stay in EU? Or will they wait to go to Wales?!

I do know.

Unfortunately I do not have any power in the negotiations as I'm sure 99.99999% of the people on Mumsnet don't either.

Me getting all wound up about it will accomplish exactly fuck all.

@LemonTT - There was no famine in 1919.

The last main famine in Ireland was in 1879 so many, many people in 1919 would remember it.

Prior to the uprising most Irish People weren’t nationalists even knowing the colonial legacy.

How then do you explain the results of the 1910 election? A majority supported home rule and saw it as a route to independence.

While farmers are worried about competing with cheap imports (eg v low animal 'welfare' standards meat from the US), I don't see how those imports can be all that cheap if they're being flown in.
None of it makes sense. We're better off importing things from the closest neighbours, by ship/lorry. You can't get fresh food from the US or Asia by ship, so it'll be immediately increasing pollution and costs.

The problems will come with importing fresh food, I think. While yes, technically lorries can still go back and forth across the channel, the legal paperwork won't be in place, so they're going to get stuck. Or, probably more likely, they're going to get waved through because the government doesn't want people to go hungry, and then that means the contents aren't being checked for quality at all.

But that's only at our end, if they do get waved through.

Fresh food/medicine supply problems do worry me. It's the worst time of the year to leave the EU, let alone have a No Deal, because we won't have the weather to grow our own crops at that point.

Combined with covid, the next few months don't look like fun. Hopefully they'll manage to get things running after a few weeks, but we won't ever have such a wide range of cheap, good quality food again, unless we rejoin. (And even then, we won't have such a good deal as the one we left, because why would all the other countries be happy for that after all the disruption?).

It's depressing, but humans are adaptable, so hopefully we will find new ways of living with this. Maybe new, local farms will spring up, there'll be a lot of demand from those who can afford it for "EU standard" food without previously banned pesticides, and I imagine a huge number of people will turn vegetarian or vegan to avoid unlabelled meat. So things could end up fine, but it's just the amount of time it'll take in the meantime to get to that point.