People not understanding what no deal actually means?

[flashbac]

Do you understand what it means? For food prices, crime enforcement, things that affect you?
Think we can just trade with the rest of the world come January? Easy as that? Do WTO rules ring a bell? Pound crashing?
Or do you think sunlit uplands await you?

Also like people, some companies don't make arrangements for change until the very last minute.

True, but it always helps if they actually know what the changes are that they are supposed to be making, which is tricky if even the Government don't know.

Gettinggrumpier
Brexit happened on 31st January 2020.
What are the definite rules that Business needs to have lined up for 1st January 2021
UK Govt link please
As of course you would not be advocating law breaking^

He won't be PM this time next year for certain. I' m not sure he will go past March. He was only ever interested in Brexit. TBF Covid has come along and fu.....him over more than it has most people both physically from contracting it and wham, really, spectacularly putting him way out of his depth politically.

@Vinomummyinlockdown

Omg the amount of people on here who have no idea or don’t care!! It’s truly scary and outrageous!!!! What did you all vote for?! I despair. That’s what happens when you let the “sheeple” vote and they have zero knowledge. Thanks David Cameron. And the Brexit ringleader AKA Bojo is now leading the country. We can see how well that’s going so far ............ 🤬

So, to stop the 'sheeple' being very silly again, should we have criteria for those allowed to vote?

Would these include the following.

Having a university degree
Living in London, preferably, Islington and other Labour strongholds around the UK
Channel 4 viewers
Guardian readers
Coffee shop frequenters
Mothers and baby group attenders
Only those that can afford a ubiquitous house extension with kitchen large enough for an island.

That should stop the 'sheeple' who have the audacity to have an opinon different to yours.

Although one promise he has kept - he really has given extra money to the NHS!!

So, to stop the 'sheeple' being very silly again, should we have criteria for those allowed to vote?
Nope.
Its much simpler.
You should only be allowed to vote in major elections if you have voted in minor ones
therefore proving engagement.

the Swiss decide lots of stuff by referendum
so people are engaged every year

the fact that turnout at PCC elections was 14% is an embarrasment.
If voting at local council and PCC was the entry ticket for General Election then people might give a shit.

Also the UK needs to get rid of FPTP
PR works fine in London, Wales and Scotland.
Time to bring it in for the rest of England

@ListeningQuietly

Gettinggrumpier Brexit happened on 31st January 2020. What are the definite rules that Business needs to have lined up for 1st January 2021 UK Govt link please As of course you would not be advocating law breaking^

Links from GOV.UK as requested.

www.gov.uk/transition

www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-import-and-export-goods-between-great-britain-and-the-eu-from-1-january-2021

www.gov.uk/guidance/declaring-goods-brought-into-great-britain-from-the-eu-from-1-january-2021

Just a tiny selection of all the information on GOV.UK. So, fill your boots.

I don't know. You don't know OP. Nobody knows. We are entering totally uncharted waters. Anyone who thinks they can predict what will happen is deluding themselves. And I'm a remainer FWIW.

@ListeningQuietly

So, to stop the 'sheeple' being very silly again, should we have criteria for those allowed to vote? Nope. Its much simpler. You should only be allowed to vote in major elections if you have voted in minor ones therefore proving engagement.

the Swiss decide lots of stuff by referendum
so people are engaged every year

the fact that turnout at PCC elections was 14% is an embarrasment.
If voting at local council and PCC was the entry ticket for General Election then people might give a shit.

Also the UK needs to get rid of FPTP
PR works fine in London, Wales and Scotland.
Time to bring it in for the rest of England

You may have a point about voting in local and national elections. However, wouldn't we need an ID card system and what about civil liberties a lot of people would say.

As for proportional representation, the turkeys - Labour and Conservatives - are not about to vote for Christmas!

And why was most of the last three years wasted? Because so many MPs spent their time trying to overrule the result of the referendum.

No because they were trying to thrash out what the result of the Referendum was. No one was talking of leaving the Single Market remember. Easiest deals in history, blah blah. I.e. MPs with principles were trying to do the job they were elected for. Those Tories with a conscience to try to do what they thought was best for the country were chased out of the Party, to be replaced by empty headed apparatchicks - who less than a year ago voted through the Withdrawal Agreement, and then suddenly found that they hadn't bothered to read it, so no matter, they would break international law. Or thought that Oven Ready Deal and No Deal were synonymous. And when it all goes tits up, we will see neither hide nor hair of them - and they will busily try to rewrite their personal histories. It's a pity for MPs that their votes are a matter of public record.

Also like people, some companies don't make arrangements for change until the very last minute.

The major complaint from industries at the moment is that they do not know what changes they are supposed to be making and yet Johnson and Gove keep insisting that they have to be prepared by January 1st and that if there is chaos and shortages, it will be the fault of the businesses. This despite there being no chance of new customs facilities being ready by January 1st, 50,000 new customs agents, vets and plant experts have not been recruited, a new IT system is nowhere near ready (and won't be for at least another 6 months) - but the government line is still that it is businesses that have failed to prepare. Classic gaslighting.

The Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry (ABPI) said on Monday that the industry still does not have details of the regulations it will be operating under after 1st January. This affects 82 million packs of drugs moving between the EU and the UK every month - which is a pretty big deal if your health and wellbeing is dependent on being able to access the medicines that you need. For diabetics who need insulin, 99% of which comes from the EU, this is vital and worrying.

Similar situations exist for importers of medical devices, chemicals, foodstuffs and more.

The biggest threat to Britain after Brexit is not the EU, or the industries and businesses that import and export. It is the sheer incompetence of the two dilettante journalists playing at being politicians who lack even the most basic understanding of trade and business.

When the country needs a man who understands trade, industry, security and international relations, it gets Gove - a man who doesn't know what he doesn't know and is happy to display his ignorance and arrogance at every opportunity

@YellowishZebra

Even on a personal level I've got (for example) 40+ swedes in the garden more than I'll eat this winter I'll swap with friends family who've got a glut of something else

I don’t think we are allowed to eat foreigners even after a no-deal Brexit

No in general people dont have a clue what that means but they are the same fucktards that voted for brexit in the first place.

I still hold out hope that a last minute deal will be reached. There are very few people who will benefit from a no deal, those with stakes in financial instruments betting on disaster, and those who are trying to avoid onerous tax regulations, i.e. the very rich. For almost everyone else it means being considerably worse off with the pound devalued, most items especially food more expensive, huge delays at the border, and worse case scenario, a return to troubles in Ireland. Ultimately, the collapse of the Union, Scottish independence, with Scotland taking a good chunk of the fishing rights with them that seemed to be such a big deal despite fishing being a fraction of the size of the financial industry, which is already damaged. This is not the Brexit that was promised. It was lies, incompetence or both.

@KooKooKachu

I mean that No Deal Brexit might not even happen. This is a negotiation and sometimes you have to stand firm and sometimes you compromise, and sometimes you might even use your poker face.

I firmly believe that the EU don't want a No Deal Brexit either but they are also negotiating and using their poker face.

We will definitely be able to trade with the EU on Jan 1st 2021, IMO.

I don't know. You don't know OP. Nobody knows. We are entering totally uncharted waters. Anyone who thinks they can predict what will happen is deluding themselves. And I'm a remainer FWIW.

You keep telling yourself that.

We have been pursuing an economic direction which has been followed before and always leads to the same place. We have become excessively centralised, ignoring the well-being of regions and areas which are therefore getting annoyed. We are one small area pulled between much larger powers. We’re also overpopulated.

None of these things bodes well individually. Together, it means we need a miracle. Anyone got a few for sale cheap?

@Croleeen - a return to troubles in Ireland

The Troubles were in Northern Ireland, not Ireland.

@raddledoldmisanthropist

What No Deal means : in a nutshell The UK is locked out of trading with Europe.

Nonsense. Worst case scenario:

• Planes don't fly.
• Tariffs on exports.
• Customs delays at ports.
• No intelligence and law enforcement co-operation.
• All our trade agreements with countries outside the EU stop (this is happening no matter what).
• Various other bits and pieces.

In practice we already have agreement on the intelligence sharing and air traffic along with most of the detailed stuff so the big problems are trade and customs. Two main effects:

We will have customs barriers with Europe which will mean delays and an increase in prices of fresh food. Possibly food shortages of some things.

60% of our trade is with the EU or countries we had trade agreements with through the EU. We've replaced those 100ish deals with one so far. Any sector which is exposed to imports or exports will suffer.

I don’t know where you get your info, but there’s no agreement currently on air traffic. Please stop lying.

Pure, unmitigated sunshine. Why can't you just trade with us? We could be your biggest trading partner. AMERICANS LOVE YOUR CHEESE, CRACKERS AND MILK. Your freedom will soon begin. Think big and conquer the world with your scotch eggs and pasties....Oh Brittania, Britannia rules the world!

Having a university degree
Living in London, preferably, Islington and other Labour strongholds around the UK
Channel 4 viewers
Guardian readers
Coffee shop frequenters
Mothers and baby group attenders
Only those that can afford a ubiquitous house extension with kitchen large enough for an island

You’ve just described Dominic Cummings (except his Islington extension was for a “tapestry room”).

@Gettinggrumpier all of which is subject to change as we are still in trade negotiations with the EU. That is the problem. It is the end of October and nothing is clear.

A business could invest in all the people and infrastructure required to trade on WTO terms and then find that investment wasted as we have agreed a deal with the EU at the last minute. Some businesses simply can't afford that.

I certainly didn't think we had an agreement on intelligence sharing? Wasn't that why Theresa May was shaking her head and mouthing 'rubbish' when Gove was blathering on the other day?

No one was talking of leaving the Single Market remember.

12 June 2016;
"David Cameron confirmed Sunday that he will pull Britain out of the single market if there is a vote to leave the European Union at the upcoming referendum."

"He said the Brexit campaign had made it clear to voters that voting to leave also meant pulling out of the single market."

www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-bbc-andrew-marr-ill-pull-uk-out-of-the-single-market-after-brexit-eu-referendum-vote-june-23-consequences-news/

8 May 2016;
"Michael Gove says leaving EU would mean quitting single market."

www.ft.com/content/0c5c74bc-151e-11e6-b197-a4af20d5575e

19 April 2016;
"The UK would still be able to trade freely within Europe even if it left the EU, Michael Gove has said."

"The justice secretary said the UK could be part of Europe's free trade area to avoid trade tariffs, even if it was not a member of the EU single market."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36074853

22 Feb 2016;
"EU referendum: Ukip leader Nigel Farage says he doesn't want to be part of the European Single Market."

"I don't want to be part of the European Single Market, I want Britain to leave the European Union, be an independent country and trade with the world," Farage said on the BBC, arguing you can have a free trade deal without being part of a political union." ...

"Farage also said earlier in a debate with [Anna] Soubry on Channel 4 News that he wants the UK to be "independent, self-governing, making our own laws", and not a part of the European Single Market and political union which forbids "us from making our own trade deals".

www.cityam.com/eu-referendum-ukip-leader-nigel-farage-says-he-doesnt-want-to-be-part-of-the-european-single-market/

@Enoughnowstop

Nonsense. Worst case scenario:- Planes don't fly.- Tariffs on exports.- Customs delays at ports.- No intelligence and law enforcement co-operation.- All our trade agreements with countries outside the EU stop (this is happening no matter what)

I have a type 1 diabetic in my family, Given all our insulin comes from Europe, the above means we are facing insulin shortages. In a nutshell, he’ll be dead very quickly if that happens.

So your worst case scenario is life and death for some of us.

What do you think Glaxo and Smith Cline Make? They make, amongst other things, insulin.

Stop this dreadful scare-mongering-worrying diabetics sick.

It is uncalled for.

"David Cameron confirmed Sunday that he will pull Britain out of the single market if there is a vote to leave the European Union at the upcoming referendum."

Pity he hadn't briefed his chum Daniel Hannan then, who said that no -one was talking about leaving the Single Market on Newsnight on the evening after the results were announced. Much to the exasperation of Evan Davies.

Yes we know that Farage doesn't want to be part of the EU - the man who failed to get elected to Parliament seven times.