Funeral- uninvited but have to pay

[jenjen99]

Hi All,
My husband died last month. We were separated, not divorced, and on good terms. Due to Covid it was a maximum of 15 guests. His father said I was not invited, 'it's family only'. Obviously doesn't understand definition of 'wife'. I didn't want to argue as it's a difficult time anyway and i can find my own way to say goodbye. However, as I'm the sole beneficiary of his estate I've just learnt that I'm liable for funeral costs, despite having no say in arrangements and not being invited. Does anyone know if this is legally correct?

TIA

@Howlooseisyourgoose

Ugh why do these OPs start threads and disappear?! So bloody annoying.

OP started the thread late last night, she may be working today or have other things to do. It's not like the thread has been abandoned for days, and even if it were that's up to her.

@VanGoghsDog

The son of my relative got their money out by just showing their parent's death certificate and proof that they were the son. They didn't have to prove that they were paying for the funeral (and they didn't actually pay for the funeral).

And if it later transpired they were not entitled to the money they could be prosecuted for fraud.

Which was my point!

Banks should not really allow this though. Unless it was a joint account, which some people do set up with offspring later in life.

You don't have to "prove" you are paying for the funeral for the bank to pay for the funeral by the way, they write a cheque to the funeral director. Or pay them directly.

They were entitled to the money as the child though. They just weren't the only one (they have siblings). As I said they didn't demonstrate that they are paying for the funeral and there was no real way of getting the money off them afterwards to pay for the funeral.

"sole beneficiary" of a Will doesn't mean you inherit everything he owned at the time of death, nor that you get to arrange or pay for the funeral.

His "estate" includes all his assets and liabilities and debts.
The Executor of the estate is responsible for rounding up all the assets of the deceased , like goods, property, bank accounts and insurance ; from that fund they settle any unpaid debts and bills including funeral costs and taxes . Then they deduct the expenses incurred by the Executor. Then they distribute what's left to the named Beneficiaries.

The Will names the Executor who's going to do the above job. If the Executor is your ex's Solicitor or bank then their time and expenses will be charged to the estate at a professional rate. So if you engage them in extra work , lots of correspondence, legal challenges etc, there will be less money left in the estate for you to inherit. You don't have grounds for any argument or challenge about funeral choices or costs, so for your own sake, avoid pushing up the Executors charges.

   Also be warned that whoever the Executor is,  it's quite normal for  settling an estate to take many months.

@2bazookas

"sole beneficiary" of a Will doesn't mean you inherit everything he owned at the time of death, nor that you get to arrange or pay for the funeral.

His "estate" includes all his assets and liabilities and debts.
The Executor of the estate is responsible for rounding up all the assets of the deceased , like goods, property, bank accounts and insurance ; from that fund they settle any unpaid debts and bills including funeral costs and taxes . Then they deduct the expenses incurred by the Executor. Then they distribute what's left to the named Beneficiaries.

The Will names the Executor who's going to do the above job. If the Executor is your ex's Solicitor or bank then their time and expenses will be charged to the estate at a professional rate. So if you engage them in extra work , lots of correspondence, legal challenges etc, there will be less money left in the estate for you to inherit. You don't have grounds for any argument or challenge about funeral choices or costs, so for your own sake, avoid pushing up the Executors charges.

   Also be warned that whoever the Executor is,  it's quite normal for  settling an estate to take many months.</div></div>

Do you really think that solicitors and paid executors are involved when people die with very little money? He probably didn't even have a will. Many people don't.

@Belladonna12

Yes, as I said IF it later turned out he wasn't entitled to it. There may be other offspring. There may be a will that has not come to light, etc. In theory. I'm not talking about what you say happened, I'm talking about why most banks dont' release money that easily.

'He probably didn't even have a will'

He must have done at some point, otherwise OP would be unable to state as she did that she is sole beneficiary.

Separation does no invalidate a will, though it is possible he made a new one since then.

You don't need to discuss a will with anyone not named in it. They have time from when probate is granted to contest/ object but need proof they have been disadvantaged. Basically if the person dying was not providing something they relied upon, then you are unlikely to win. There may be no will or executor but as his spouse you still need to investigate who had taken on that voluntary role.

@Farahilda

'He probably didn't even have a will'

He must have done at some point, otherwise OP would be unable to state as she did that she is sole beneficiary.

Separation does no invalidate a will, though it is possible he made a new one since then.

It doesn't mean he had a Will at all. She is his wife so she would be the sole beneficiary if he didn't have a Will.

[quote VanGoghsDog]@Belladonna12

Yes, as I said IF it later turned out he wasn't entitled to it. There may be other offspring. There may be a will that has not come to light, etc. In theory. I'm not talking about what you say happened, I'm talking about why most banks dont' release money that easily.[/quote]
Do you have any personal experience or legal knowledge because I looked into this at the time and it certainly didn't seem the case that banks don't release the money that easily. Far from it if small amounts are involved.

This article suggests nothing has changed. If anything it has got worse
www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-8406991/Banks-handing-100k-plus-bereaved-relatives-without-probate.html

I know we are slipping off subject, but in my experience banks generally behave appallingly after a death. We (my brother and I, as joint executors for our parents who died close together) had so many problems with Barclays lack of information, despite crowing about their wonderful bereavement service, that we received substantial compensation from them after our complaints were upheld. It was like they had never dealt with a dead customer before. Dreadful.

Yes, as that headline you linked to says "risking fraud".

I think you're misunderstanding my point because you jumped onto the middle of another exchange without understanding what that was about.

@VanGoghsDog Please stop talking to me as if I am stupid. DH and I are educated, intelligent people.The solicitor did what was required. WE did probate ourselves saving over £1k. The solicitor did the absolute minimum and was in fact a family friend. We had to provide details of siblings for him to contact.

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@VanGoghsDog Please stop talking to me as if I am stupid. DH and I are educated, intelligent people.The solicitor did what was required. WE did probate ourselves saving over £1k. The solicitor did the absolute minimum and was in fact a family friend. We had to provide details of siblings for him to contact.[/quote]
You're solicitor was incorrect.

*your

@Reedwarbler

I know we are slipping off subject, but in my experience banks generally behave appallingly after a death. We (my brother and I, as joint executors for our parents who died close together) had so many problems with Barclays lack of information, despite crowing about their wonderful bereavement service, that we received substantial compensation from them after our complaints were upheld. It was like they had never dealt with a dead customer before. Dreadful.

Oh yes, wonderful Barclays! My dad worked for them so my mum was entitled to a survivor’s pension, sorting that out was a massive palaver. The local branch, however, was brilliant with sorting out their current accounts and really kind and sympathetic. I guess it’s like most things, it comes down to the attitude of the person actually dealing with you.

Firstly, phone the funeral director and check that you are not liable to pay despite being legally his wife. Secondly, let the Coroner's Office know that that have been misinformed and that you are his next of kin. If there is to be an inquest you need to be informed.

Regardless of will etc . The person who arranges the funeral and therefore enters into a contract with the undertakers is liable for funeral costs . No ifs or buts

@Madonnawiththebigboobies

Regardless of will etc . The person who arranges the funeral and therefore enters into a contract with the undertakers is liable for funeral costs . No ifs or buts

Indeed. And will need to apply to whoever is administering the estate if he wants to claim it back from the estate.

OP - if you haven't seen it yet, there is a very good guide to these circumstances on the Citizens Advice website:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/dealing-with-the-financial-affairs-of-someone-who-has-died/#h-how-long-does-it-take-to-get-probate-or-letters-of-administration

I know we are slipping off subject, but in my experience banks generally behave appallingly after a death.

Definitely. After my mother died my father asked the bank to cancel the cards she’d had on their joint account and remove her name from the account The total twonk he had the pleasure of speaking to was adamant that the needed to speak to both account holders and ended up with saying that “in that case you should have asked her to call us before the death”.

That bank lost all my fathers accounts.

I've arranged 'too many' funerals, sadly and the undertakers' bill comes to whomever organised it /put their name to it - they don't wait for estates to be 'paid out' to be paid!

From the OP - said 'estate' suggests not enough money to cover the cost of a funeral, so I would be surprised if a will/solicitor is involved.

Thread is moving fast and not in an edifying way! I am organising an estate now. Bank; required signatures from 3 executors, scans of death cert and will. The document indemnifies the bank against argy bargy as outlined in this thread. Bank happy to deposit considerable amount in my account. Probate is filling a form online like self assessment, nominal amounts not required, over £250k more detail. More time is spent dealing with utilities and random stuff like little used accounts than the big stuff. Equity release companies have a compassion bypass. HTH.

She might not be liable but she is losing money from an estate she is entitled to for a service she is not invited to.

*@storyoftonight *no way can the op be held to pay for a funeral she has not entered into an agreement/contract with . Regardless of inheritance. Etc