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Original poster

Funeral- uninvited but have to pay

239 replies

jenjen99 · 20/10/2020 00:55

Hi All,
My husband died last month. We were separated, not divorced, and on good terms. Due to Covid it was a maximum of 15 guests. His father said I was not invited, 'it's family only'. Obviously doesn't understand definition of 'wife'. I didn't want to argue as it's a difficult time anyway and i can find my own way to say goodbye. However, as I'm the sole beneficiary of his estate I've just learnt that I'm liable for funeral costs, despite having no say in arrangements and not being invited. Does anyone know if this is legally correct?

TIA

OP posts:
Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 12:29

I find it bizarre that on the site where many claim that they are in dire straits , no one seems to comprehend that some people die without much money, and that solicitors. do not deal with the estate. Not everyone has a Will. Probate is not required for small amounts.

VinylDetective · 20/10/2020 12:33

@Bluntness100

Op, I think some confusion here.

Speak to the solicitor dealing with the estate. His estate is liable not you. If he died not leaving enough to cover a funeral and you’re the sole beneficiary then you can refuse the inheritance I think.

The not invited thing is totally separate..and it’s nothing to do with the costs.

There may well not be a solicitor dealing with the estate. I was executor of my parents’ wills and did it myself.
VanGoghsDog · 20/10/2020 12:51

Probate is too complex an issue not to be dealt with by a solicitor.

It's really not. The vast majority of people I know deal with it themselves. Mum did dad's this year. It's taking ages but that's because they are incompetent not because it was complex.

Whatsonmymindgrapes · 20/10/2020 12:55

You’re not paying, it’s coming from his estate. I think that you’re getting at you will be getting less money from the estate and not even able to attend the funeral? The issues should be separate.

VinylDetective · 20/10/2020 12:56

No it’s not. Anyone with the intelligence to fill in a form and use a calculator can do it.

Sarahsah4r4 · 20/10/2020 13:03

@TheEmpressOfUtterBastardry

He is pulling a fast one and trying to stuff you for a few grand.
I think so too 🤔
JinglingHellsBells · 20/10/2020 13:10

Probate is not required if the estate is under £5K

There is a lot of form filling but it's not hugely complex. The hardest bit when I did my MILs was she was one of a very large family and they were scattered all over the place and had to be contacted by the solicitor.

The hardest part was adding up everything for IHT.
This was her home, assets and anything that was sold (at auction as it happened) to give the final total.

You do have to be aware that people can have hidden/ hardly used bank accounts, savings and pensions or insurances that need to be found.

JinglingHellsBells · 20/10/2020 13:12

You’re not paying, it’s coming from his estate

But they were MARRIED!
His 'estate' is now his wife's unless he left a will saying otherwise. She inherits it all so in effect she will pay.

Some people talk about an 'estate' as if it's something different to the deceased's bank accounts which his relatives inherit.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 20/10/2020 13:13

Op, as you're still married you're the legal next of kin.

There is no legal definition of Next of Kin thi UK.

And lots of people on here seem very muddled about the difference between a coroner and a funeral director/undertaker

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 20/10/2020 13:16

Whatsonmymindgrapes

At 01:01 jenjen , the Op, posted the estate was small and wouldn't cover a funeral, maybe half

Why can nobody read?

Whatsonmymindgrapes · 20/10/2020 13:20

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

You’re a very rude person. I can read and did read that but I took that to mean that she is upset about the small contribution going to the funeral and not her ie: her paying for it.

VanGoghsDog · 20/10/2020 13:21

OP hasn't said that he has written a Will or that anyone is and execute. A lot of people don't have Wills, especially if they have very little money. I was surprised that my relative was able to extract the money from the bank but they did. Maybe they could have been taken to court about it but if it's a relatively small amount people may not bother and I don't know what would happen if they did.

I wasn't suggesting the op had said anything about a will - I was giving the natural extension of the scenario you put forward.

I am, obviously, aware that many people don't have wills.

You can usually get the bank to release enough money to cover a funeral, around £3k normally, so if this person only had that amount that could be why. Or if they had power of attorney and did not tell the bank the person had died (whilst illegal, people do that).

It's not people who would take them to court, it's the crown. It would be considered fraud and a criminal offence. The amounts involved don't really impact that. They might impact any sentence.

VanGoghsDog · 20/10/2020 13:22

The hardest bit when I did my MILs was she was one of a very large family and they were scattered all over the place and had to be contacted by the solicitor.

Why did they?

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 13:23

It's not complicated. He had hardly any money and I doubt that probate, solicitors etc will be involved. He probably didn't make a will. The father in law has taken responsibility for payment. He can ask OP for the money but she can tell them to get stuffed. I don't know what would happen if it went to court but highly unlikely he will want to do that considering he lied about his son's wife to exclude her from the funeral. Therefore, OP doesn't need to do anything or worry about it.

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 20/10/2020 13:26

Whatsonmymindgrapes are you not being rude to the OP, trying to accuse her of wanting an inheritance? Its very clear if you read all her posts that her concern is being liable to pay all costs/ bills for a funeral she has no control over the cost of as well as has been told not to attend because she isn't family.

Reedwarbler · 20/10/2020 13:27

Yes, I can't understand the mention of the coroner either. The only death I have dealt with that involved a coroner was my father's, who died suddenly and accidentally and consequently there was an inquest. All the other family deaths I have dealt with are ones that were expected, and you register the death with the registrar, get the death cert. and then organise the funeral, all fairly straight forward. As far as I'm concerned a coroner is there purely to question suspicious and/or untimely deaths.

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 13:30

@VanGoghsDog

OP hasn't said that he has written a Will or that anyone is and execute. A lot of people don't have Wills, especially if they have very little money. I was surprised that my relative was able to extract the money from the bank but they did. Maybe they could have been taken to court about it but if it's a relatively small amount people may not bother and I don't know what would happen if they did.

I wasn't suggesting the op had said anything about a will - I was giving the natural extension of the scenario you put forward.

I am, obviously, aware that many people don't have wills.

You can usually get the bank to release enough money to cover a funeral, around £3k normally, so if this person only had that amount that could be why. Or if they had power of attorney and did not tell the bank the person had died (whilst illegal, people do that).

It's not people who would take them to court, it's the crown. It would be considered fraud and a criminal offence. The amounts involved don't really impact that. They might impact any sentence.

Banks don't necessarily only release enough money to cover the funeral. It varies according to the bank policy I think. Some will just release certain amounts up to a threshold.

Why would the Crown take OP to court? She hasn't committed any fraud or criminal offence. The father-in-law took it upon himself to arrange for the funeral and is therefore responsible for paying it.

Howlooseisyourgoose · 20/10/2020 13:41

Ugh why do these OPs start threads and disappear?! So bloody annoying.

VanGoghsDog · 20/10/2020 13:45

Why would the Crown take OP to court? She hasn't committed any fraud or criminal offence

I wasn't talking about the op, I was talking about the scenario I was responding to where someone said their friend got all their parents' money from the bank with no will, nothing, just "proof of who they were". And suggested the op could do this too.

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 13:48

@VanGoghsDog

Why would the Crown take OP to court? She hasn't committed any fraud or criminal offence

I wasn't talking about the op, I was talking about the scenario I was responding to where someone said their friend got all their parents' money from the bank with no will, nothing, just "proof of who they were". And suggested the op could do this too.

I think that has happened actually. The son of my relative got their money out by just showing their parent's death certificate and proof that they were the son. They didn't have to prove that they were paying for the funeral (and they didn't actually pay for the funeral).
VanGoghsDog · 20/10/2020 13:48

As far as I'm concerned a coroner is there purely to question suspicious and/or untimely deaths.

Yes, people (includjng me actually because I was responding in kind) have misused the term coroner.

But this is not the only reason coroner's are involved - I believe anyone who dies who has not seen their GP/a HCP in a certain period of time (which is quite short, like two weeks or something) has to be seen by the coroner.

Might be different currently with Covid, lots is!

JinglingHellsBells · 20/10/2020 13:50

Why did they?

@VanGoghsDog Because anyone in the family can contest a Will. They need to be a) told their sibling has died b) given the chance to say they have a claim on something

I'm not making it up! This was done as there was family of 9 , all in the 80s and 90, scattered over the UK.

VanGoghsDog · 20/10/2020 13:52

The son of my relative got their money out by just showing their parent's death certificate and proof that they were the son. They didn't have to prove that they were paying for the funeral (and they didn't actually pay for the funeral).

And if it later transpired they were not entitled to the money they could be prosecuted for fraud.

Which was my point!

Banks should not really allow this though. Unless it was a joint account, which some people do set up with offspring later in life.

You don't have to "prove" you are paying for the funeral for the bank to pay for the funeral by the way, they write a cheque to the funeral director. Or pay them directly.

VanGoghsDog · 20/10/2020 13:57

Because anyone in the family can contest a Will. They need to be a) told their sibling has died b) given the chance to say they have a claim on something

I'm not making it up! This was done as there was family of 9 , all in the 80s and 90, scattered over the UK.

Ridiculous. We didn't tell any family what dad's will said. They can see it on the probte database if they want to. We've not even told my brother yet and he's a beneficiary! (I mean, about the will, we've told him dad died, obviously)

There is no legal requirement to do this. Contesting a will is very unlikely on most normal estates in England (Scotland has some different rules).

I know you're not making it up.........

Another reason for not using a solicitor, this sounds like they just did that to use up more time and charge more money.

Of course it is the decent thing to let siblings know of the death, but you don't need a solicitor to do that and it's nothing to do with the will.

Bluntness100 · 20/10/2020 13:57

There may well not be a solicitor dealing with the estate. I was executor of my parents’ wills and did it myself

That’s true, but as the op is clearly nor aware of the rules she would be best seeking brief legal advice.