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AIBU?

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Original poster

Funeral- uninvited but have to pay

239 replies

jenjen99 · 20/10/2020 00:55

Hi All,
My husband died last month. We were separated, not divorced, and on good terms. Due to Covid it was a maximum of 15 guests. His father said I was not invited, 'it's family only'. Obviously doesn't understand definition of 'wife'. I didn't want to argue as it's a difficult time anyway and i can find my own way to say goodbye. However, as I'm the sole beneficiary of his estate I've just learnt that I'm liable for funeral costs, despite having no say in arrangements and not being invited. Does anyone know if this is legally correct?

TIA

OP posts:
dentydown · 20/10/2020 11:43

It’s normally who arranges the funeral pays for the funeral. They sign the contract with the undertaker!

PegasusReturns · 20/10/2020 11:44

What an awful position to be in.

As other have said his estate pays for the funeral, if you are sole beneficiary then ultimately this means you’ll receive less inheritance. I imagine this is a concern if the estate was small and you have DC.

Sorry for your loss

DameFanny · 20/10/2020 11:45

Not a lawyer. Am wondering if FIL told the funeral director he was next of kin, and told you you were liable for the bill, whether that does in fact constitute fraud? Mentioning that might be an quick way of having him back off anyway.

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 11:52

But please, get advice from a solicitor.

Why spend money on a solicitor though? The father-in-law may just pay the funeral costs and OP mainly hear no more about it. Even if he asks her for money, if she refuses he is not likely to take further action considering he took responsibility and stated she was divorced.

DishingOutDone · 20/10/2020 11:55

i dont think I've ever seen so much conflicting advice on one thread! OP could come back and clear up a few points, but I think as she said earlier her husband didn't even leave enough money for to cover the funeral in the first place it does need sorting out - if FiL was devious enough to say they were divorced so as to get control of the funeral then he's definitely going to try to get OP to pay for it.

OP you could usefully get advice from your local CAB by phone, or see if your house insurance or car policy etc comes with free legal advice? I reckon this is not as straightforward as it seems.

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 11:57

@DishingOutDone

i dont think I've ever seen so much conflicting advice on one thread! OP could come back and clear up a few points, but I think as she said earlier her husband didn't even leave enough money for to cover the funeral in the first place it does need sorting out - if FiL was devious enough to say they were divorced so as to get control of the funeral then he's definitely going to try to get OP to pay for it.

OP you could usefully get advice from your local CAB by phone, or see if your house insurance or car policy etc comes with free legal advice? I reckon this is not as straightforward as it seems.

He might ask her to pay for it but I don't see how we could force it. He signed the contracts and took responsibility. OP doesn't need to get advice. Better to not worry about it and see what happens.
JuliaJohnston · 20/10/2020 11:58

he's definitely going to try to get OP to pay for it.
But op has no legal obligation to pay for it.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 20/10/2020 11:58

@Belladonna12

But please, get advice from a solicitor.

Why spend money on a solicitor though? The father-in-law may just pay the funeral costs and OP mainly hear no more about it. Even if he asks her for money, if she refuses he is not likely to take further action considering he took responsibility and stated she was divorced.

How did the OP "learn" that she was liable for the costs? My guess is that the FIL has told her so. So I don't think we can count on any level of decency from him at this stage. Hence why the OP needs proper legal advice so she can tell him where to stick it.
Reedwarbler · 20/10/2020 11:59

@JinglingHellsBells when my mother died my father had to get probate on her estate, and when my father died (shortly before receiving probate on my mum's estate) we had to start all over again, which was expensive. Some estates are very complicated (as my parents were) and what you say about probate is incorrect. In fact, in all but one case, where the wife (my mil) had no assets of her own at all (and no will either), I have not known of a spouse dying and probate not being required. Assets have to be accounted for and distributed as per the will. After probate is granted the will becomes a public document.
Also, if you don't want to be someone's executor, you don't have to - it's a thankless task anyway.. Similarly you don't have to accept something left to you in a will if you don't want it.

iluvgab · 20/10/2020 12:03

i dont think I've ever seen so much conflicting advice on one thread! OP could come back and clear up a few points

The conflicting advice is precisely because the OP has not given enough information about the situation. If she doesn't come back then no one can help her further but hopefully she is getting advice in real life from someone who is qualified to do so.

VinylDetective · 20/10/2020 12:05

[quote Reedwarbler]@JinglingHellsBells when my mother died my father had to get probate on her estate, and when my father died (shortly before receiving probate on my mum's estate) we had to start all over again, which was expensive. Some estates are very complicated (as my parents were) and what you say about probate is incorrect. In fact, in all but one case, where the wife (my mil) had no assets of her own at all (and no will either), I have not known of a spouse dying and probate not being required. Assets have to be accounted for and distributed as per the will. After probate is granted the will becomes a public document.
Also, if you don't want to be someone's executor, you don't have to - it's a thankless task anyway.. Similarly you don't have to accept something left to you in a will if you don't want it.[/quote]
This. Every estate of any size requires probate. My parents’ couldn’t have been much simpler and, like you @Reedwarbler, we had to go through probate twice in six months. You can’t transfer shares, bank accounts, land registry records, bank accounts without a probate certificate. You can’t transfer premium bonds at all and you need a certificate to redeem them.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 20/10/2020 12:05

Legal advice is important because the deceased might have life insurance or death in service benefits from work that the family may attempt to claim. Also fil has lied in order to take control of this situation. OP and her h may have been separated in relationship terms but not legally. If it turns out her h has debts it's possible someone will pursue the OP for these. If there are assets the OP is unaware of, she doesn't want her fil claiming and spending them. I'd want the clarity of having gone through a solicitor.

Cruachan31 · 20/10/2020 12:11

Not RTFT so don’t know if this has already been covered.

My worry would be that if OP and her husband were separated but not divorced, had there been a division of assets? The OP says her husband’s estate was very small and would only cover half the cost of his funeral, but was the OP’s home (if privately owned) still in both names, or were there any other joint assets?

If this was the case could the OP be made to pay for the funeral out of their joint estate, despite having no say in what type of funeral there was and how much it cost?
@jenjen99 is there any possibility that this could apply?

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 20/10/2020 12:14

Agreed there's a good deal of conflicting advice on this thread. Probate is too complex an issue not to be dealt with by a solicitor.

It's already been pointed out that anyone can decline their appointment as Executor at any time.

FiL saw fit to exclude you from the funeral and the funeral arrangements. You've respected his wishes and stayed away. I'd now suggest that as your presence in any facet of his son's life seems so upsetting to him, you block him from any means of contacting you and move on. If he has any questions about his son's estate he should contact your solicitor.

Ensure you have legal advice and close any loopholes so there can be no repercussions. There is no reason at all why any liability should be placed back onto you. I'd also add that as well as the option to resign as executor, anyone is entirely at liberty to reject being a beneficiary of someone's will.

Member869894 · 20/10/2020 12:16

You should contact the coroner and amend his death certificate to show you are his widow for pension purposes

Cruachan31 · 20/10/2020 12:17

Sorry, just noticed this has already been brought up. 😩

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 12:18

This. Every estate of any size requires probate. My parents’ couldn’t have been much simpler and, like you @Reedwarbler, we had to go through probate twice in six months. You can’t transfer shares, bank accounts, land registry records, bank accounts without a probate certificate. You can’t transfer premium bonds at all and you need a certificate to redeem them.

No, it's not true that probate is required whatever the size. No one on here seems to comprehend that some people die with very little money let alone a Will. If someone only has £10 their name do you really think solicitors and executers will be dealing with their estate?

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 12:19

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Legal advice is important because the deceased might have life insurance or death in service benefits from work that the family may attempt to claim. Also fil has lied in order to take control of this situation. OP and her h may have been separated in relationship terms but not legally. If it turns out her h has debts it's possible someone will pursue the OP for these. If there are assets the OP is unaware of, she doesn't want her fil claiming and spending them. I'd want the clarity of having gone through a solicitor.
OP said there wasn't even enough money for the funeral. Assuming that is true, then the deceased did not have life insurance or death in service benefits from work.
VinylDetective · 20/10/2020 12:19

@Member869894

You should contact the coroner and amend his death certificate to show you are his widow for pension purposes
You’ve never seen a death certificate, have you? It makes no mention of a spouse. And coroners don’t issue them in any case. This thread’s completely bonkers.
VinylDetective · 20/10/2020 12:21

@Belladonna12

This. Every estate of any size requires probate. My parents’ couldn’t have been much simpler and, like you @Reedwarbler, we had to go through probate twice in six months. You can’t transfer shares, bank accounts, land registry records, bank accounts without a probate certificate. You can’t transfer premium bonds at all and you need a certificate to redeem them.

No, it's not true that probate is required whatever the size. No one on here seems to comprehend that some people die with very little money let alone a Will. If someone only has £10 their name do you really think solicitors and executers will be dealing with their estate?

“Of any size” was misleading wording. What I meant was more than a few quid.
Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 12:22

How did the OP "learn" that she was liable for the costs?

It could have been anybody.

Hence why the OP needs proper legal advice so she can tell him where to stick it.

Unless the "proper legal advice" is free it's not worth getting it for a relatively small amount of money. He may not ask her for anything.

Belladonna12 · 20/10/2020 12:26

“Of any size” was misleading wording. What I meant was more than a few quid.

It depends on the bank but in my relatives case it was a couple of thousand. The bank released it without probate. It sounds as if OP's ex-had a similar amount if it was about half the funeral costs.

Bluntness100 · 20/10/2020 12:26

Op, I think some confusion here.

Speak to the solicitor dealing with the estate. His estate is liable not you. If he died not leaving enough to cover a funeral and you’re the sole beneficiary then you can refuse the inheritance I think.

The not invited thing is totally separate..and it’s nothing to do with the costs.

ivykaty44 · 20/10/2020 12:26

www.warwickdc.gov.uk/info/20645/oakley_wood_crematorium

different crematoriums have different numbers allowed in different chapels

go 10 miles up the road and the rules will change again

probate isn't needed if the deceased estate value is under about £5k

cabbageking · 20/10/2020 12:28

You don't always need probate or letters of administration if the estate is small. If the husband wanted someone else named as their next of kin that is up to them. It has no effect on intestate estate. If you are named in the will the executor has a legal responsibility to ensure everything is legal. First thing is to find out who the executor is and if a will exists or not.