Funeral- uninvited but have to pay

[jenjen99]

Hi All,
My husband died last month. We were separated, not divorced, and on good terms. Due to Covid it was a maximum of 15 guests. His father said I was not invited, 'it's family only'. Obviously doesn't understand definition of 'wife'. I didn't want to argue as it's a difficult time anyway and i can find my own way to say goodbye. However, as I'm the sole beneficiary of his estate I've just learnt that I'm liable for funeral costs, despite having no say in arrangements and not being invited. Does anyone know if this is legally correct?

TIA

Could fil be trying to stake a claim on any monies?

Can the funeral director even take funds from the estate without the next of kin's permission? If banks are notified of death, needs beneficiary permission to give permission to draw funds.

So even the modest estate might not go to funeral expenses, as OP can decline permission for funds to go to funeral director/flowers/catering etc.

I would ring funeral home and check they know FIL is not next of kin and he is liable for meeting the funeral bill.... then you can decide for yourself whether you late husband's estate will all go towards funeral or not.

I would suggest it is the right thing to do, but certainly anything not paid for by estate is FIL's financial responsibility, not yours.

Agree with those who say it's not your problem.

Phone the funeral directors and tell them that the person who organised the funeral is the one to talk to. You had no input and weren't even there.

Just say no and keep on saying no. No, I'm not paying for a funeral I was told to stay away from, no I am not acting as executor of the estate. Speak to the funeral director and tell them that (as they already know) FIL is dealing with everything.

I am sorry that FIL is making a difficult time even harder. Don't feel that you have to make his life any easier over this.

People keep referring to the coroner, but is this at all relevant?

OP- talk to the solicitor who is handling your separation and divorce.

I think if the money comes from his estate, that means in effect that the OP will pay as she is the main beneficiary of that estate unless his will says otherwise. His estate will include any property jointly owned, cars, personal possessions of value, pensions, savings, shares, etc etc. All of this has to be sorted through probate.

However, it's up to her to take control of this and not allow herself to be excluded from the funeral or to pay for things she has not agreed to.

OP_ you really do need to be assertive here. If you want to go to the funeral, go- no one can stop you- anyone can turn up at anyone's funeral, just like a church wedding. Talk to the funeral provider and talk to your FIL- they are bullying you- and talk to your solicitor. Surely if you are separated you have some arrangement in place already for finances?

no I am not acting as executor of the estate.

The executor is named in a will. You can't say you don't want to do it if you are the named person.

Surely the person who organised it is responsible. You can make a contribution if you are the recipient of his estate but don’t feel obliged to pay the lot particularly as you weren’t invited. His family have obviously decided you’re no longer anything to do with them.

OP- has the funeral already taken place? It's not clear from your post.

@jenjen99

Can you claim this?
www.gov.uk/bereavement-support-payment

I am so sorry you have to put up with this.

Hug

I work for a funeral director. The person who arranges the funeral and signs the paper work is our client. They are who we invoice. The funeral directors will certainly not chase you for this money.

The FIL is n’t necessarily lying or trying it on.

He did if he told the coroner his son was divorced from OP, when that isn't the case.

We have just had this with father in law who didnt leave enough to pay for funeral.
The legal position is that any money in the estate has to be used to pay funeral costs first . Then any other debts and then anything left over goes to beneficiaries.
In our case he left a few hundred in the bank which will go to funeral director . He also left a lot of debt which will be written off and the outstanding balance of the funeral costs is being borne by my husband and his siblings

I think its fair that his estate covers the cost of his funeral. Anything not covered by his estate they will have to pay for. They dont get to choose how to spend your money without allowing you a say. If they took it to court your FIL would have serious trouble for lying to the coroner about who next of kin is by saying you're divorced.

How do you know that there's not enough in the estate to cover the funeral?

Did he have a will?

Did he have a pension?

Often the pension is paid in to the estate. The widow might receive it. These are all things you should be looking in to, and which you may well be unlikely to get if you play no part in the administration of the estate.

@JinglingHellsBells

no I am not acting as executor of the estate.

The executor is named in a will. You can't say you don't want to do it if you are the named person.

You can

Not rt whole ft yet but as I understand it from when mil died, the person who arranged the funeral is the one who gets the bill. The contract for the funeral is between the undertaker and the person who hired them. No one can force you to pay for something you didn't agree to. The undertaker can't really expect you to pay for a job you didn't commission. And if the father has gone overboard and organised a really expensive funeral in the assumption you would be paying for it, I would definitely get legal advice and not part with a penny until your solicitor has told you exactly where you stand. Normally the next of kin can claim the costs from the deceased's estate and funeral costs are considered the first priority before anyone else who is owed money can claim anything. But you are NOK, not his dad.

Also you don't have to be the executor. Be aware that if you did start sorting out his estate, that does confer some legal liability on you, so you'd have to be careful not to pay people he owed money to (if that's relevant) in the wrong order. Tax bills for example get priority. Be careful of the banks - they will want to offload responsibility, so don't sign anything they put in front of you without getting it cleared/explained by a solicitor first. I had all this when mil died owing money.
Remember that regardless of what his father says, you are his wife and legally that means something. I'd be getting legal advice about his father lying to the coroner. You might want some leverage in case they continue to overstep.

Ok in terms of practicalities and how this works - yes, the costs can be recouped by the estate but that can take months because it’s tied up in the administration of the estate. Funerals do not wait for that.

If the FIL booked the funeral he would very likely have had to pay his own money up front, likely a 50% deposit there and then and 50% by the funeral date. He then has the right to recoup the costs back from the estate.

Unless the FIL deceived the deceased’s bank and withdrew all the cash in the account or knows the PIN number of credit / debit cards (and by now these should have been cancelled and the account frozen), there’s no way he could have already charged the estate.

But in answering the OPs question, no there’s no chance of the FIL forcing her to pay. He’s the one with the contract with the funeral director. He’s immediately liable for the debt, he just has the option of recouping from the estate afterwards.

@PaleBlueMoonlight I'd like you to link to something legal where it says you can go against the wishes of someone in their Will, where they appoint you as their executor.

This is usually agreed obviously before they die.

Many people use a solicitor to avoid any upset.

You say 'uninvited' so we're invited and then something happened to make them change their mind?

I get the feeling is more to it than what has been shared.

If you ex FIL arranged the funeral then actually he is responsible for settling the bill, there may or may not be enough money in the estate to cover the funeral costs - but the contract with the undertakers is with the person organising the funeral

Your FIL will have had to sign the paperwork, you haven’t

Otherwise people could organise funerals spend thousands of pounds and walk away without paying a penny - that’s not going to happen. So undertakers deals with the person organising and get them to sign

As you are still married to the deceased this could cause problems for FIL as the money in your ex estate may well be that your the beneficiary- maybe there is a will?

Has FIL made any indication he wants you to pay for the funeral?

YANBU don’t pay. Who told you you are expected to pay? Was it ex-FIL?

Contact the funeral directors as pp have suggested.

People are trying to guilt trip you into paying because you’re not divorced yet but if you’re not good enough to be at the funeral then your money shouldn’t be good enough either.

You say 'uninvited' so we're invited and then something happened to make them change their mind?

That's not what 'uninvited' means.

@dontdisturbmenow

I think the OP clearly means she was NOT invited.' Not invited' and 'uninvited' mean the same thing, though uninvited is used more when someone turns up 'uninvited' ( as in not having had an invitation.)

*because you weren’t divorced, that should say

sorry for your loss

OP_ you really do need to be assertive here. If you want to go to the funeral, go- no one can stop you- anyone can turn up at anyone's funeral, just like a church wedding.

There is a restriction of numbers on funerals and weddings
The undertakers and cremation staff will and can stop people attending funerals

Slight derail. If someone if in hospital the NOK has to be named where possible, this can be anyone, NDN for example. Do not assume that because someone is a spouse or relative they are automatically considered NOK. Another example, someone can have more than 1 child, only one of them can be named NOK.