Funeral- uninvited but have to pay

[jenjen99]

Hi All,
My husband died last month. We were separated, not divorced, and on good terms. Due to Covid it was a maximum of 15 guests. His father said I was not invited, 'it's family only'. Obviously doesn't understand definition of 'wife'. I didn't want to argue as it's a difficult time anyway and i can find my own way to say goodbye. However, as I'm the sole beneficiary of his estate I've just learnt that I'm liable for funeral costs, despite having no say in arrangements and not being invited. Does anyone know if this is legally correct?

TIA

He is pulling a fast one and trying to stuff you for a few grand.

whoever commissioned the funeral will have signed paperwork committing to ensure funeral costs are covered either from the estate or from their own funds.

If the estate was sufficient to cover the costs then you would be unreasonable, it is quite appropriate for the assets of the deceased to be used to pay for the funeral and it's not "your money" until it is what is left over after any debts and funeral costs are paid - and if that is zero then so be it.

You are absolutely reasonable to refuse any additional liability for costs of funeral incurred beyond the value of the estate. If someone else signed up for a more expensive funeral than the estate could afford then that is not your problem. You can't be held liable for a debt you didn't agree to. Do not pay. Let them take you to court if need be but they cannot prove you liable (unless you did sign something agreeing to pay these costs?). Just don't expect to inherit a penny until the costs are paid.

Sign the estate over to FIL as a gesture of goodwill "to help him pay towards the funeral costs". End of. You are not liable. He can't book anything in your name. Keep a copy of correspondence.

How come he died last month, but the funeral is only now? That seems a long time.

@Spidey66

How come he died last month, but the funeral is only now? That seems a long time.

We’re not even three weeks into October. I don’t think that’s unduly late.

@Spidey66

How come he died last month, but the funeral is only now? That seems a long time.

Covid delays? My mother's in the summer was almost three weeks after she died (not Covid)

It's not clear whether an offence has been committed

The priority for registering a death (may be different in Scotland) is:

• a relative who was present at the death
• a relative present during the person's last illness
• a relative living in the district where the death took place
• anyone else present at the death
• an owner or occupier of the building where the death took place and who was aware of the death
• the person arranging the funeral (but not the funeral director)

Not knowing the circumstances of the death (unexpected, I assume as coroner involved) it's not clear how well his DDad fitted the criteria, but if they lived local to each other then it would have been OK

It's not clear if OP knows for sure what happened with the coroner - inquests (whether hearing or paper exercise) are a matter of public record. Only she can decide if it is something she wishes to find out more about.

She should check the will. Who is executor? It's possible he updated it after the separation. But if he really had little to leave, and the funeral was small because of covid, even if OP had been in charge of the funerary expenses then it's possible there would have been nothing left over. So OP might have had no actual cash loss even if handled differently.

But what is happening to his personal effects? Is there is anything of sentimental value that needs a decision?

@KihoBebiluPute

whoever commissioned the funeral will have signed paperwork committing to ensure funeral costs are covered either from the estate or from their own funds.

If the estate was sufficient to cover the costs then you would be unreasonable, it is quite appropriate for the assets of the deceased to be used to pay for the funeral and it's not "your money" until it is what is left over after any debts and funeral costs are paid - and if that is zero then so be it.

You are absolutely reasonable to refuse any additional liability for costs of funeral incurred beyond the value of the estate. If someone else signed up for a more expensive funeral than the estate could afford then that is not your problem. You can't be held liable for a debt you didn't agree to. Do not pay. Let them take you to court if need be but they cannot prove you liable (unless you did sign something agreeing to pay these costs?). Just don't expect to inherit a penny until the costs are paid.

This.

Lots of questions need answered. Are you able to come back OP to answer some that people have asked?

You are not liable. Arranging a funeral is basically the same as any other commission/service. The usual thing in cases like this would be for the deceased assets to be used. However, the person that arranges the funeral is ultimately liable for any excess. They can't just pass it on. They made the choices, signed contracts etc so it's down to them.

She says the funeral "was" small. It's already happened.

Op you aren't liable for any costs. His estate pays and then whoever contracted with the funeral director etc (presumably his DF).

Hes wrong. I sasly has ro arrange a duneral recently, and the person who arranges the funeral puts their name down as liable for the costs. He's trying it on.

How awful. I think if you're not invited to the funeral and you're ok with that, then you shouldn't pay the excess. I'd work on the assumption that there won't be any inheritance to receive.

How shit for you, what a horrible thing to deal with. But I'd try not to deal with FIL as he's obviously extremely distraught.

The bill for the funeral is sent to the person who organised it. I can't imagine any funeral director accepting a client who says that, although they are ordering/organising the funeral, the cost will be borne by someone else, who does not know they are paying, and who the funeral director has not and will not meet. Can you imagine any business accepting this? Also, in my experience, you are asked about means of payment when the funeral is organised. I think you need to speak to the funeral director and tell him what has happened. If there is a shortfall from your xhb's estate, the cost should be borne by your fil. As it must be his details the undertaker has, he is the one who will be pursued in the small claims court for any missing payment. No-one in a court would make you liable for the cost having heard the story behind it.

How come he died last month, but the funeral is only now? That seems a long time.

With my FIL in non-Covid times, his body spent a month with the Coroner before being released because his death was "unexpected" even though he was elderly and wasn't in the best health. If it was an unexpected death rather than a predicted one, then it can take quite a bit of time before you can arrange a funeral.

If u in Scotland it is whoever Insturcted the funeral who is liable for costs even if u left some money you are not liable tell his father he lied he pays
I buried my father two months ago so can assure you this is right
In england I have no idea . I signed for my fathers funeral so I was liable.

You are not actually liable though.

The funeral and associated costs will come from the estate and you inherit from your husband that you have separated from if anything left. If not and you are not financially responsible for your husband then you won't have to pay the rest.

The executor of the will will have the say in arrangements usually following what the deceased has suggested if anything.

The FIL is n’t necessarily lying or trying it on.

Given that He’s lost his son we should show some sympathy and with regard to what he said to the coroner, perhaps he thought you were divorced, or sees separation and divorce as the same thing.

He should n’t have excluded you or try to make you pay but that’s a separate issue from the coroner.

Edit: his estate was very small. I doubt it would cover a funeral. Maybe half

Then his estate pays for what it can, his family pay the rest and you will inherit nothing.

"I've just learnt that I'm liable for funeral costs, despite having no say in arrangements and not being invited. Does anyone know if this is legally correct?"

It doesn't say that FIL has asked for anything, nor do any of OP's other posts say that FIL asked for anything other than for OP to stay away from the funeral.

She hasn't explained the coroner's involvement, nor whether the difference between divorced/separated was actually relevant to the inquest (assuming there was a hearing, as I'm not sure how he would have had the opportunity to lie to a coroner otherwise)

It will be relevant to the executor idc, assuming the will under which she is beneficiary has not been superseded. Who is the executor?

The issue with the Coroner has passed - the body has been released. The issue with the funeral has passed, it has already happened.

All that remains to resolve is the estate. Funeral costs can be deducted from the estate before distribution to the beneficiary(ies). So if I were you OP, I'd write a brief account of the estate - how much money, how many assets, total value. Ask FIL for a copy of the funeral bill so you can see how much it was - you don't want to offer more money than it actually cost. Send FIL a cheque along with the account of the estate, so that he can see that there were no more funds. He is then liable for the rest of the funeral bill, as the contract was with him and not you.

Yes, you could get nothing from the estate. You would be right to be annoyed that you didn't get a chance to request a cheap council funeral (and perhaps keep a little from the estate). But being bitter, and remaining bitter, about the situation will only eat away at you and not him and not his family. Don't do that to yourself.

(My response above is based on the OP being Executor or taking the role of Administrator.)

@EggysMom you are assuming that the op is the executor, which she hasn't said.

Oops, sorry Eggys - cross posted.

It is very difficult to assess whether an estate is small; if deceased was in employmemt there may be a pension which pays out to dependents as well as life insurance. There may be premium bonds, shares, Jewellery, a car. All this has to be established by the executor/s. Just a warning, deceased's Df could access his bank account because all is required from bank apart from identity checks is a signed indemnity - no proof of divorce. Only house sale and shares require sight of will and probate (respectively). A small funeral is £3500 (have just arranged). Lots of organisations are having to think on their feet and it's quite difficult to speak to bereavement departments although they are accepting scanned documents. Unless you have DC together and/or you are named executor on will, I'd let it go. Take care.