John Leslie - AIBU to agree that men accused of sexual assault should have anonymity until charged?

[FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers]

Having 3 sons myself (and a daughter), cases like this are really worrying as people will always think ‘there’s no smoke without fire’.

I don’t understand why John Leslie didn’t sue the arse off that jibbering imbecile Wright or why Jonsson started the witch hunt then refused to speak out. That was what started off all the rest of the allegations and if, as it seems, he is entirely innocent, it is a disgusting travesty and has totally ruined his life.

Non DM link below:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/john-leslie-trial-not-guilty-a4572176.html%3famp

@june2007

BBC3 did a programme on men who had been accused of Rape but not found guilty, it had ruined their lives including leading to suicide. I believe in innocent to prooven guilty. You may think JL is guilty and you may be right but he has not been prooven and it is not up the media to decide that can effect the trial and actually make it harder to get a convictiion.

Yes and (I am honestly trying to tread very carefully here) one of those cases based on the description given by the accused did actually sound like rape to me.

I am not saying which one it was because it is a very sensitive topic but I was a bit baffled by how someone could honestly read the mans side of the story and actually think "yup that was 100% consensual and the woman was completely in the wrong to believe it wasn't".

@flaviaritt

I used to feel differently about this, back in the days when people didn’t hear an allegation and immediately assume it was true. But these days if you say, “Well, he might not have done it” (which, before conviction, is a simple fact) people get quite adversarial and suggest you are making excuses for rapists. So now I have changed my mind.

You do know that it's still a 1.5% conviction rate for rapists, right? And that's even lower when you consider that many many victims (myself and sisters included) never come forward because we know the kind of attack you face.

As a pp said, sexual assault is damn near legal, public shame is likely the best we've got. False allegations should be treated seriously also, but there isn't a rash of false allegations. History has shown us it's much more likely to be a few women laughed at until there's a critical mass confident enough to come forwards.

I knew him back in the day.

I believe her.

YANBU. As evidenced by the responses on this thread people do assume guilt from accusations and an accusation of a crime of this nature carries particular stigma (as it should do) so to suggest this is not different to other crimes is blatantly not true.

There is due process and a justice system for a reason and it's important that just as the guilty should be charged and punished, the not guilty should not be penalised and punished. Justice is only served if we get both of those right. And that includes punishing by trial by social media or the press. It's goes against a fair and proper justice system and that should be at the centre of any civilised society.

There are big big issues with our justice system. Including the very poor rate of successful rape prosecutions. But that doesn't mean that the accused should be named and punished outside of the justice system or we might as well not bother with a justice system at all.

One innocent person accused and "punished" is one person too many.

Keeping the accused anonymous is an easy fix in the right direction imo.

@Cadent

YABU. The number of rapes being reported to police is growing but the number of prosecutions is falling and a record low.

Police are using rape victims' mobile phone history against.

That is what your AIBU should be.

100pc this. I was listening to women's hour wondering how the hell this has happened. Sending nudes=guaranteed sex to predatory men as no charges will be made against them.

Years ago when DH and I had just met and started dating, he was a witness in a rape trial. He testified how a man had barged into the flat next door and locked the door. He heard screams and was shouting at the man to open the door. He could hear the distress from the woman inside and was trying to get the man to open the damn door. The police were called and they actually had to taser the man. The case went to court and DH was adamant he would be found guilty. I remember feeling he wouldn't, despite all the evidence. Guess who was right.😒

Nah, I do think character witnesses should be banned though. Completely irrelevant and misleading.

Oh, and since reputations are so very important, anybody accusing rape victims of being liars without the victim having first been held to be a liar in a criminal court should be charged with an offence.

That seems fair.

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

TheQuietWoman I couldn't agree with you more.

I am one of those who were raped and it never got to court. I have a confession. I am not sure how much more evidence you need to convict someone than their own words?

I am one of the ones who are silenced, not allowed to name my rapist, not allowed to explain and own what happened to me, not allowed justice. Going to the police was horrific and if some of you think that women do this because they are vindictive nasty women you are very much mistaken. The process is traumatic, humiliating and degrading.

The very fact we live in a society where victim blaming is the norm and the fact we don't believe women has ruined my life.

Why should a victim be named @keeprocking? Is it not enough that they’ve suffered horrendous abuse and humiliation without being publicly judged, humiliated and targeted by the press?

As for the alleged rapist/perpetrator- personally having experienced assault I would have done anything (and have tried everything) to have the perpetrator named - not because it does anything for me, but because (he wasn’t even charged) he gets to do it all over again. It destroyed a year of my life. I still have constant nightmares about him. And that was “just” sexual touching.
I’m not going to bang on about me but reputation should be based on what someone actually is, not the fake persona they project.
In short, someone charged should be named...at the very least.

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

Oh come on, you need to ask that 🙄🙄 Rapist doesn’t rape every woman he knows, shock horror 🙄

People would find it easier to trust that an absence of a rape conviction or a not guilty verdict was anything close to innocence if we didn't have a system that allowed the vast, vast majority of rapists to continue their lives unhindered by consequences.

That's why people don't trust not guilty verdicts, not because they're man-haters. Fix the system, stop men raping with impunity, and people might actually start to trust verdicts.

But that won't happen because men's reputations are much more important than women's lives.

Yabvu

Teach your sons not to rape.

Rape prosecutions are at 3% on the news today so yeah make it even harder for victims

@FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

Do you think John Leslie is just a very unlucky man to have multiple women make allegations against him at several different points in his life?

If a woman claimed to have been raped multiple times by different men throughout her life then eyebrows would be raised. She would very likely be mocked and called a liar. But a man is accused of sexual assault by different women throughout his life and he continues to claim they are lies and that he is a victim and he is believed. I think there is a bit of a double standard here...

But apparently it was well known in the industry what he was like? They were all part of it. Were they all lying on oath?

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

Well, at least you're transparent about your only concern being reputational.

If a murderer produced a line of character witnesses stating "he was always lovely to me, never murdered me" would that be proof of innocence in your view?

@FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

Maybe he hasn't raped or sexually assaulted every woman he ever worked with?

It's also funny that innocent until proven guilty only seems to work one way.

A man is accused of rape and he is innocent until proven guilty. Fair enough.

But a woman is accused of making a false rape allegation and suddenly she should be locked away without trial.

In the majority of so called false rape accusations there is no proof the woman lied but so many people want to throw her to the wolves regardless.

Really funny double standard that.

Don’t read the tabloids then. I don’t know anything at all about this story because I haven’t read one of those rags in 40 years.

@FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

My dad's mate was a lovely guy. Pillar of the community in a helping profession, lots of kids, adoring wife. My parents would undoubtedly have stood as character witnesses for him, and as fellow pillars of the community in helping professions, and friends of many many years, would likely have been believed.

His wife showed up at another friend's house one night with a broken bone and 4 sobbing young children, one of whom was badly bruised because he'd been thrown across the room when he was trying to protect his mum from the beating.

Character witnesses should be banned because people outside the relationship only see the tip of the iceberg, it's meaningless in terms of the actual accusation but muddies the waters for jury or judge.

@IhateBoswell

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

Oh come on, you need to ask that 🙄🙄 Rapist doesn’t rape every woman he knows, shock horror 🙄

Why did Maxine Carr give Ian Huntley an alibi?! People are not above putting self interest ahead of justice.

@FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers

Again, so why have women he previously worked with defended him in court? It’s not as if that would help their public profile is it?

Why do wives stay with their husbands who rape? Why do parents never believe their son is capable of DV? Why do women date men known to have abused a previous partner? Why did Ched Evans' sister name his victim on Twitter?

Because a lot of women are conned by men who are nice to them and can't see that they have been utterly vile to other people.

Some of the women he works with are fed the "poor me, poor, poor me, all these women keep saying I hurt them, you know me though don't you, I wouldn't hurt a fly. Gish you're so different from all those mean and nasty bitches, you're the sort of woman who gives me hope" that a certain kind of man ensures his non victims hears. Then he has a few women to point to as cover- I can't possibly be a rapist, look at all the women I didn't rape who say I am lovely!

I have three sons and I teach them not to rape people, turns out it is quite an easy lesson to teach.

Teach your sons not to rape and they should be fine

This is as disgusting as telling daughters not to wear short skirts.

People are already getting their excuses ready for why they supported Trump in case he loses...