Page 2 | John Leslie - AIBU to agree that men accused of sexual assault should have anonymity until charged?

FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers · 2020-10-19T16:17:34+00:00

Having 3 sons myself (and a daughter), cases like this are really worrying as people will always think ‘there’s no smoke without fire’. I don’t understand why John Leslie didn’t sue the arse off that jibbering imbecile Wright or why Jonsson started the witch hunt then refused to speak out. That was what started off all the rest of the allegations and if, as it seems, he is entirely innocent, it is a disgusting travesty and has totally ruined his life. Non DM link below: [[https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/john-leslie-trial-not-guilty-a4572176.html%3famp]]

unmarkedbythat · 19/10/2020 17:48

I am very, very torn.

One the one hand I think everyone, regardless of age and sex and nature of offence they are accused of, should have anonymity until convicted.

On the other hand, it is so often the case that victims see their abusers in the press and finally feel able to come forward to get their own justice.

As far as John Leslie is concerned, I do not believe him. I did not believe him in the past and I do not believe him now.

lynsey91 · 19/10/2020 17:49

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RiseoftheSeahorse · 19/10/2020 17:49

I used to agree with you. I was raped as a teenager and I still believed men shouldn’t be named until after they were convicted. I can see why it would be devastating to those few men who are wrongly convicted, even if it is a very small number.

But then Operation Yewtree happened and that’s when I changed my mind. I never reported my rape but I realised I would if I found out he’d raped others. It’s scary to be the first voice, but there’s strength in numbers.

As for John Leslie, I don’t think he was ever reported to the police was he? So anonymity wouldn’t have made a difference- Matthew Wright would still have named him. As far as I’m aware, Ulrika Jonsson has never named him herself. And if it was him, of course she wouldn’t defend him to the press.

He’s been accused and arrested several times for rape and assault now. Horrible coincidence if he’s in that 4% of falsely-accused men.

Pollynextdoor · 19/10/2020 17:50

I always used to think women wouldn’t make false allegations or that it was incredibly rare. I have since changed my mind. I now don’t think it’s incredibly rare (from personal experiences but too outing to give details).

cordeliaflynne · 19/10/2020 17:50

If there was actually a respectable chance of rapists being convicted then acquittal in a rape trial would actually mean something. All the time that conviction rates are so low, being acquitted becomes effectively meaningless. This is why those who are accused want anonymity as once accused, people will always think that there is 'no smoke without fire' whatever the courts say. The fix for this is not anonymity for the accused but a reasonable prospect of getting the guilty convicted. If that happened then an acquittal would start to mean something.

Florencex · 19/10/2020 17:50

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IncandescentSilver · 19/10/2020 17:50

I don’t understand why John Leslie didn’t sue the arse off that jibbering imbecile Wright

Yes, I wonder why someone who has had their reputation ruined so badly that they have been unable to work in their chosen field since it happened and lost their fabulously well paid job as a result wouldn't sue for such an obvious case of defamation...

Except if they believed they wouldn't win.

Guilty as sin, he is just about the best example out there for NOT bringing in anonymity for such crimes. The conviction rate for sexual crimes in this country is where the real disgrace lies.

Gancanny · 19/10/2020 17:50

Figures for the year ending March 2020 show that 99% of reported rapes did not result in any proceedings being undertaken against the accused. That's in addition to the many rapes that go unreported.

news.sky.com/story/99-of-rapes-reported-to-police-in-england-and-wales-do-not-result-in-legal-proceedings-why-12104130

Imagine if 99% of all murders resulted in no arrests and no criminal proceedings, it would be unacceptable, so why is rape any different?

TheQuietWoman · 19/10/2020 17:51

Because she is a nasty vindictive woman that is why. So if he did rape her why did she not actually say that? She loves a bit of publicity doesn't she

And right there you have the reason why many women do not want to speak.

And accusing men of rape is for attention, is it? Without looking, name the Bill Cosby accusers. Go on.

IhateBoswell · 19/10/2020 17:51

She loves a bit of publicity doesn't she

Ouch, bit much 🙄

We can’t say if he’s innocent or not.

NailsNeedDoing · 19/10/2020 17:52

I agree people accused should have anonymity. It is far too easy at the moment for women to make a false accusation and because it’s difficult to prove either way it can ruin innocent people’s lives in an instant.

The law should not allow one lie to have that big an impact. One sex should not have that much power over the other when we are trying to achieve equality.

EhUp · 19/10/2020 17:54

YABU but even if you have a point John Leslie is absolutely the wrong example to use (agree with OP that there is plenty of evidence that he is a serial predator)

I remember an interview he did when he presented This Morning with some sort of relationship coach (he was single at the time and it was shortly before anything had appeared in the press about his behaviour). He proudly described himself as a 'player' and said third date was 'too long' to wait for sex, he came across as very arrogant and entitled about that he could expect from a woman on the first or second date. Horrible man!

Gancanny · 19/10/2020 17:54

Because she is a nasty vindictive woman that is why. So if he did rape her why did she not actually say that? She loves a bit of publicity doesn't she

Because the furore that arose when Matthew Wright named John Leslie worked out so well for her, didn't it? Especially considering all these years later she is getting through blame for naming John Leslie when it wasn't even her who did name him.

John Leslie was not found innocent. He was found Not Guilty. This doesn’t mean the jury or judge found him innocent of the charge. It only means that the prosecution failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty.

missbipolar · 19/10/2020 17:55

Actually I disagree with your example.... Anyone who's been accused 3 times probably isn't as innocent as they say.

TheQuietWoman · 19/10/2020 17:56

@NailsNeedDoing

I agree people accused should have anonymity. It is far too easy at the moment for women to make a false accusation and because it’s difficult to prove either way it can ruin innocent people’s lives in an instant.

The law should not allow one lie to have that big an impact. One sex should not have that much power over the other when we are trying to achieve equality.

I really can't believe the utter crap I am reading on this thread. Have you ANY idea how many woman are raped each year in the UK? Approximately 100,000. In the States a woman is raped every thirteen minutes. Now how many of these raping men are even taken to court never mind convicted? Less than 6% with 1.5% convicted. And you have the neck on you to say it is WOMEN who have power over men? Ffs.

When one in three men are sexually assaulted at the hands of women in their lifetime, then we can have a fucking conversation about women's power over men.

Bouledeneige · 19/10/2020 17:58

@IncandescentSilver

I don’t understand why John Leslie didn’t sue the arse off that jibbering imbecile Wright

Yes, I wonder why someone who has had their reputation ruined so badly that they have been unable to work in their chosen field since it happened and lost their fabulously well paid job as a result wouldn't sue for such an obvious case of defamation...

Except if they believed they wouldn't win.

Guilty as sin, he is just about the best example out there for NOT bringing in anonymity for such crimes. The conviction rate for sexual crimes in this country is where the real disgrace lies.

I agree 100 percent.

june2007 · 19/10/2020 17:58

BBC3 did a programme on men who had been accused of Rape but not found guilty, it had ruined their lives including leading to suicide. I believe in innocent to prooven guilty. You may think JL is guilty and you may be right but he has not been prooven and it is not up the media to decide that can effect the trial and actually make it harder to get a convictiion.

Original poster

FauxFurCoatAndBigKnickers · 19/10/2020 17:59

So Leslie is actually guilty then? Do all the well known women who recently backed him know that then? They must do as they were in the industry as well. What do they have to gain by standing up for a sex predator?

Just shows that accusations of this sort stick and destroy people’s lives, unlike burglary (Gino D’Acampo) or murder (Leslie Grantham).

OP posts:

Gancanny · 19/10/2020 17:59

It is far too easy at the moment for women to make a false accusation and because it’s difficult to prove either way it can ruin innocent people’s lives in an instant.

Women who have actually been raped can't get the police or the CPS to take them seriously, what makes you think the - incredibly rare - false accusers have any more credibility than the ones telling the truth? The myth that women make false accusations out of spite has been disproven over and over again yet is still damaging the conviction rates because the default position is that women are manipulative liars.

One sex should not have that much power over the other when we are trying to achieve equality.

Sex is irrelevant in terms of anonymity here. The accused does not get anonymity, regardless of their sex, and the victim does get anonymity again, regardless of their sex.

It is not the fault of the court that the majority of the accused are male, that is a problem with men.

RiseoftheSeahorse · 19/10/2020 17:59

It is far too easy at the moment for women to make a false accusation and because it’s difficult to prove either way it can ruin innocent people’s lives in an instant

I agree with you that it’s easy, and that a woman with a grudge could easily ruin a man’s life. But the reason why rape reports are so low is because women are afraid to make their assault public knowledge. The reason I didn’t report mine was because of fear of disbelief and what people would say.

You only need to look at high-profile cases like this one, or the Chef Evans case to see how the woman is treated. Even in this thread, Ulrika has been branded as horrible, nasty and vindictive (and she didn’t even name him).

I just can’t see why women would put themselves through that if it wasn’t true. I know some do- there have been convictions, after all. But I just can’t believe that the number of false reports is much higher than the official figures. Who would open themselves up to this sort of abuse just to get back at someone they have a grudge on, especially when we can see that even convicted rapists often go on to have their careers unharmed. John Leslie is the exception here.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 19/10/2020 18:00

I think John Leslie is a very unlucky man to keep bumping into women who want to ruin his life by accusing him of sexually assaulting him. Very unlucky indeed.

TheQuietWoman · 19/10/2020 18:00

@june2007

BBC3 did a programme on men who had been accused of Rape but not found guilty, it had ruined their lives including leading to suicide. I believe in innocent to prooven guilty. You may think JL is guilty and you may be right but he has not been prooven and it is not up the media to decide that can effect the trial and actually make it harder to get a convictiion.

Maybe we will see a programme about rape victims who have been accused of being liars when their rapists walked free. But I doubt it.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 19/10/2020 18:00

@EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire

I think John Leslie is a very unlucky man to keep bumping into women who want to ruin his life by accusing him of sexually assaulting him. Very unlucky indeed.

Meant assaulting them not him...

Belladonna12 · 19/10/2020 18:01

Hilarious that you don't understand why he didn't sue Wright, OP. Why do you think he didn't sue the person that cost him his career? After all he would have won a fortune if it wasn't him that raped Jonsson. Could it be because he wouldn't have a leg to stand on if it went to court? Why would Jonsson not say that it wasn't him if it wasn't? Could it be because it was him?

Merename · 19/10/2020 18:05

@Hellothere111

How many women does he need to abuse for it to be believed? He’s had 4+ accusers at this point. Maybe it needs to be like Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein where dozens of women speak out?

Do you really think John Leslie is an honest, upstanding man that just keeps bumping into lying women determined to bring him down? Why on earth can't you see? Why does he keep getting these accusations when others aren’t? He’s hardly a billionaire! He hasn’t worked for 20 years?!

This. Let’s spare our concern for the alleged victims.