Money doesn't make you any happier

[Iris101]

AIBU to think this? Sarcastic replies accepted but........

I work with a guy who is on big bucks. He's never happy, because he uses all his money to fund an expensive lifestyle for himself and his kids including fee-paying school. He and his DW nearly split up two years ago - he admitted it was because they worried about how to meet all their bills/continue funding their lifestyle, and all they ever talked (argued) about in the evening was money.

I also work with a woman who is a part-time assistant in a Finance Team. She has three kids/married and earns about £16,000 pa. Comparatively, she is very happy. I asked her once why she didn't go for a promotion, and she just replied "I didn't want it. I never wanted it." She seems happy with her lot. Genuinely happy. She never talks about money as a problem. Whereas people who earn a lot, do.

I've met various people through the course of my working life who are big earners, and they all have something in common - money-related trauma, whatever shape that takes, it's there, lurking under the surface. One boss said to me once, "Money goes in, money goes out." He also worried endlessly about letting money go; it was a painful experience for him that he was constantly bugged for funding. And it showed on his face. He was miserable.

Now of course it's clear that to attain a certain level of comfort, you need to have enough money to meet your basic needs. But various studies over the years have shown that beyond this baseline, excessive levels of wealth have relatively low impact on an individual's state of happiness. Does money actually begin to lose it's value after a certain point? Once you've got enough money to buy whatever you want, does your wealth become meaningless? And once you've attained a state of wealth, do you just worry about it trickling away?

There was a story not long ago in the paper (can't remember which paper) about a modest working man who won the lotto. He said it ruined his life. The friends he had either abandoned him or got nasty when they expected him to give them money or buy them things, and he was attacked in the street by jealous neighbours. He said he was so unhappy he had contemplated suicide.

These are just examples that I can think of for the purposes of discussion. I'm sure there are lots of people who are wealthy and happy. As many to match the ones who aren't. But does money (or the acquisition of it) make for a good enough goal in order to attain happiness?

Giving a dissatisfied person a lot of money - I don't think it would make them any happier. In fact, quite the opposite. What do others think?

Between being rich and miserable and poor and miserable, I’d pick rich and miserable every time. There’s quite a few things going on for us that would be easily solved if we could just throw money at them - money we don’t have as DP’s income has all but evaporated due to COVID.

People who say money doesn’t make you happier clearly lack imagination.

Being short of money certainly leads to unhappiness. Once you can afford a comfortable house, reliable car an annual holiday and the occasional treat I don't think extra cash would make you happier.

@Devlesko I envy that you never feel financially unhappy.

But a large unexpected cost for us could mean we lose our home. We literally scrape together change just to get vegetables for dinner for nights.

We have a roof over our head, clothes on our back. But am I happy living with that? Of course not. It’s the daily worry of will we last another month?

The colleague on £16k who didn’t want any more is being subsidised by someone else, I assume. Probably a spouse. Otherwise she’d be hungry for more. Once you have enough to pay the bills and go on holiday when you want then the rest is just fun money.

PriceEmUp

I know how you feel OP, and there's nothing to envy, believe me.
Quite often I'm on the fringes of society. If I was expected to have a certain lifestyle (and I don't mean rich) perhaps I would worry about money too.
I can certainly see how somebody in your situation would worry. I hope things improve for you soon .

Sorry, errant OP in there.

I think there are ambitious, motivated people who, through working hard at school/university etc have ended up with high paying jobs, but then there are those who are completely motivated by money and acquisitions, and it's this latter group who rarely end up happy.

My friend's DF was like this - he earned a huge amount but it maintained a lavish lifestyle and he began mixing with people who had more, and it was never enough.

I think research across the world shows that once you have enough money to have your basic needs met and a reasonably decent standard of living, then after that there is no correlation between money and happiness.

Eg bottom page 16
www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/migrated/files/Rowlingson-Income-eBook.pdf

I think not having money can make you unhappy. But without my DH, my health, my kids, I would be miserable however rich I was.

Being poor is a miserable experience. The woman with the 16,000 pa job probably has enough to cover bills and then some, perhaps with partners wage.

I think happiness comes down to having enough and not having to struggle, personality and past experiences. Any of those three can make or break the happiness scale. Hence you can be loaded but have a personality that is never satisfied, anxious, not settled etc and as a result you just aren't happy.

I lived for several years below the poverty line but was perfectly happy. However, I think if I'd had kids it would have been far harder. Sitting in bed with blankets to keep me warm because I couldn't afford heating was fine as a 22 year old. Doing that with kids would be heartbreaking.

Genetics and childhood play a part. Some people are predisposed to anxiety and depression and money can't cure trauma.

It's all in the mind and the brain.

How many rich celebrities live a screwed up life, can't stay happy in a relationship, or succumb to addiction? There is often no undoing a bad genetic make up or a bad childhood.

Only people who've never been poor could ever think anything so clueless (that's the most polite word I could use). Lucky you.

Of course miserable people will always be miserable no matter how much money they have but that doesn't take away the misery and stress that is caused by people not having enough money. Which money will fix.

Reneerol the OP says in her first post that you need to have your basic needs met! After that I agree it can't really make you happier. If I had wads of cash I wouldn't do anything differently to what I do now. I would just have more plush surroundings. My car might be top end instead of a battered ford focus. My holiday wouldn't be a budget hotel/airline. I am still lucky enough to drive and take a holiday. Having more money wouldn't change things. I posted on another thread yesterday that even though I'm not as skint as I was a few years ago I still worry about stuff. My mental health has been very poor lately. Its not money that I worry about though.

Life can be rubbish at times rich or poor. BUT having money to leave an abusive relationship, get counselling/treatment for mental health issues. Buy good quality food. Respite care looking after relatives with medical conditions. The list is endless.

Money gives you freedom, choices and can help getting health issues sorted out quickly.

I think it depends what you do with said money. If, like your colleague you spend it all on keeping up some lavish lifestyle I can see how that would be stressful.

However DH and I are a lot better off now than we were some years ago and we are definitely happier for it. But we haven't really changed much, still live in the same house and drive normal cars, no private schools or anything. But just knowing you have a bit of money if needed is much nicer for us than when we were living literally month to month and stressing about every unexpected fee or whatever.

I don’t think it is as black and white as no money = happy and money = unhappy.

I came from a poor background, struggled with money quite a lot until I was mid to late 20s. At that time, my career started paying dividends and I was doing well in my early 30s, then met DH so we ended up with double income and both high earners. I think it is infinitely preferable to struggling for money. I have never had any money related traumas since I became financially comfortable and nor do DH and I spend much time talking about money.

Money doesn’t mean you are always happy of course, I walked away from the highest paying job I have ever had because my boss was a completely nasty bully and was making my life hell.

I think it all depends on each individual. It would definitely bring me happiness.

What I don’t like is when people who are living comfortably go all patronising about it and think money doesn’t bring happiness and you can find happiness in other ways. They don’t know what they’re talking about. Not saying that’s you OP.

Money gives you choices ...

Without it I have to work every day.

With it I can decide to work or I can decide to be sailing on a yacht around the Greek islands!

Some interesting points here. Just for context, I come from a very poor background. Brought up one of three with no heating/hot water. I remember being hungry a lot! We were desperately in need but lucky to have very loving parents. I ended up going to uni, managed to get myself a job (not paying a huge amount) but enough that I now have heating in my house/hot running water. I am very happy. I have two sons, I work part-time, DH works full-time and earns around £40,000pa. I earn £16,500. I can afford to meet my bills/buy food (to a budget of course!)

But to me, coming from humble beginnings, I feel rich. I can afford meat for a start (When we were little meat was off the agenda.) It was pretty tough being poor to that extent - other kids notice for a start, I got picked on a few times for having old clothes at school. But I think growing up in poverty installed a good work ethic in me. As soon as I could I got myself a part-time shop job in my local town and saved up to buy myself..........a wardrobe, from Argos! It was amazing!

So I think I am rich, because I have a mortgage, I have enough food each week and I can put the heating on when I want. I think it's down to expectations as well - I can't imagine the kind of lifestyle where a holiday is all-inclusive/far-flung destinations in the tropics etc. Our holidays are on the cheap, camping holidays in the Lake District or a caravan on the Isle of Wight. That's enough for me.

I think you do value money more if you've lived without. Or, perhaps, it's more specific to say you know how to make it count.

Yes @Iris101 at 56,500 pa you definitely aren't poor now. That's a comfortable annual amount, and likely the amount where more money won't make you happier. Very different for families worrying about food insecurity, heating, school shoes etc.

I was most solvent when in a couple - two sets of earnings, bills split. Now I have to cover all the household bills alone on my pathetic 11k income. But I feel I have more freedom - I can eat what I want to cook, go out or stay in when I want, read, write or go to bed.

It is worth the trade off to me. Less money but my time is my own (unnless I'm at work, of course).

There’s having not enough money to buy even the basics and then there’s having created a lifestyle that you can’t afford happiness is impossible.

Money would definitely make me happy-- but earning it wouldn't. Earning big bucks generally involves stress and long hours. Then some high earners do trap themselves in the expensive lifestyle. So money does not automatically make everyone happy.
If money came to me easily , it would definitely make me happy. It would remove all the stresses of being poor, it would give us choices in life and it would give me such pleasure to provide nice things for my family - a holiday!!!! - a car!!!!!!! driving lessons!!!!! I have no desire whatsoever for a big country house with a pool, or a flash car or expensive jewellery, lottery winner style- they wouldn't make me the slightest bit happy.