Money doesn't make you any happier

[Iris101]

AIBU to think this? Sarcastic replies accepted but........

I work with a guy who is on big bucks. He's never happy, because he uses all his money to fund an expensive lifestyle for himself and his kids including fee-paying school. He and his DW nearly split up two years ago - he admitted it was because they worried about how to meet all their bills/continue funding their lifestyle, and all they ever talked (argued) about in the evening was money.

I also work with a woman who is a part-time assistant in a Finance Team. She has three kids/married and earns about £16,000 pa. Comparatively, she is very happy. I asked her once why she didn't go for a promotion, and she just replied "I didn't want it. I never wanted it." She seems happy with her lot. Genuinely happy. She never talks about money as a problem. Whereas people who earn a lot, do.

I've met various people through the course of my working life who are big earners, and they all have something in common - money-related trauma, whatever shape that takes, it's there, lurking under the surface. One boss said to me once, "Money goes in, money goes out." He also worried endlessly about letting money go; it was a painful experience for him that he was constantly bugged for funding. And it showed on his face. He was miserable.

Now of course it's clear that to attain a certain level of comfort, you need to have enough money to meet your basic needs. But various studies over the years have shown that beyond this baseline, excessive levels of wealth have relatively low impact on an individual's state of happiness. Does money actually begin to lose it's value after a certain point? Once you've got enough money to buy whatever you want, does your wealth become meaningless? And once you've attained a state of wealth, do you just worry about it trickling away?

There was a story not long ago in the paper (can't remember which paper) about a modest working man who won the lotto. He said it ruined his life. The friends he had either abandoned him or got nasty when they expected him to give them money or buy them things, and he was attacked in the street by jealous neighbours. He said he was so unhappy he had contemplated suicide.

These are just examples that I can think of for the purposes of discussion. I'm sure there are lots of people who are wealthy and happy. As many to match the ones who aren't. But does money (or the acquisition of it) make for a good enough goal in order to attain happiness?

Giving a dissatisfied person a lot of money - I don't think it would make them any happier. In fact, quite the opposite. What do others think?

That is very true @SecretSpAD

I know when I was very very poor I used to buy myself little treat foods from M&S and feel really guilty. But knowing I could just have a tasty little 'special' meal could get me through the week!

Give me lots of money and I'll call you and tell you how miserable I am not having to worry about paying bills

Not having to constantly worry about money is a relief which can definitely make you happier.

Having money means having choices. Making the right choices makes you happier.

However, I believe only people who are comfortably off say things like 'money can't make you happy'.

I live in a 1 bed HA flat. I’m on a small fixed income with only a little if anything left after paying bills and food. I am happier now then I was when I was married and lived in a lovely house and didn’t have any money worries. I have to be frugal now and do worry about having enough for necessary outgoings but I wouldn’t go back to my pre-divorce life. That’s not to say I don’t wish I was better off because that would be great.

@Devlesko

It depends on the person though, some people are happier without money and if it comes to a time when they don't have enough they cut back and it doesn't worry them. If you don't have it you can't spend it. As long as you have a roof over your head, food in your belly, and clothes those are basic needs covered.

Last time I checked food, clothes and shelter costs money.

Every single one of my problems could be solved with more money. Yabu.

Your sample group is too small be be meaningful.

It certainly does, having the house mortgage free and car owned outright and no debt what so ever with good disposable income every month we are alot happier, no worrying, stress e.t.c

I grew up pretty poor in a very rural area. This was 70s/80s. Five of us in a caravan for 6 years. Then five of us in a 2 bedroom home. Only heated room was living room. No bathroom. Outside toilet. Ice on inside of windows in winter. No social lives. Never had a holiday. Hungrier than I'd like sometimes. Home repossessed just as I was leaving school.

My life now is still very modest and I don't earn enough to pay tax, haven't paid off mortgage, am on the shielding list and WFH freelance with no steady income. Managing so far and grateful for that. I still feel quite well off because I have a bathroom and warmth

Of course, it would be nice to have the roof over my head paid for as I worry about becoming sick.

I’d be a lot happier if we wasn’t worrying about how we can feed ourselves every month, buying my daughters milk and clothes,

I’d be a lot happier if going back to work didn’t mean earning £2.85 an hour after paying for child care.

I’d even be happier if I could afford to get some nice Christmas decorations and presents since it’s our first Christmas as a family but understand that not a necessity. But it would make me happy.

I feel like people who live comfortably believe money doesn’t buy happiness because your not financially unhappy.

I like the finer things in life, nice meals out, nice holidays, nice clothes, different experiences, living in a nice house etc. you can’t do those without a certain amount of money. So money does make you a little bit happy. Of course my husband, kids, family and friends are the things that make me the most happy. But having the financial freedom to do fun things with them is the icing on the cake. We have lived a more frugal life this year by force, and it has been fine but there are only so many country walks I can take. I need more variety back in my life.

I dont think its money that makes you happy or unhappy, its what choices you make with it.

Your male colleague obviously lives life beyond his means because he feels he can. In reality if he cut some expenses and didnt try to attain such an expensive lifestyle he'd be much happier.

Your female colleague seems to make better choices

I've been poor-ish (free school meals etc...) And also very rich.

The major threshold as others have said is being able to pay all your bills, get basics without checking the price or worrying and go on holiday. That makes the most difference.
The next one is the next level of security, you get a really good house with no mortgage and put money away for the kids to go to uni or get set up in a little business when they grow up. The best thing about that is that for me is knowing I have the house and could always quit my job if I wanted to.
The next one is knowing you can solve money related problems for those close to you (eg. Sort out a parents mortgage, buy a car for a relative when theirs conks out etc...) That gives good piece of mind and for me is what excess money should be for.

The bad side can be subtle, for example if you are really rich there are options that you have to waste your time thinking about. Like should you do private school? Will your kid end up too posh if you do? Is it really worth the insane amount of money etc... All in the good problems to have category, but actually you can end up fixating on them.

Overall, the leap away from worrying about money and having to add up in the supermarket is the best one and the one that gives you the most happiness.
Then the helping out family because you know that it's doing the same for them.

@Crikeyblimey

money doesn’t necessarily make you happy but it’s more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bike!

I love this! And agree actually with another poster up thread, who said we have a baseline happiness which we always revert to no matter what.

@Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket

That’s a really interesting post. Notably the biggest positive effect is felt at stage one; the moving away from constant worry about the basics. Interesting to hear from people who have had real life experience.

Maybe your female colleague on 16k is happy with her lot because her husband on 100k

Being financially comfortable is one problem less in life

This ^

Having money doesn't make me happier per se, but it provides things that make me happy, a beautiful home, a comfortable, reliable car that is pleasurable to drive, being able to buy good quality food, being able to afford lovely holidays, paying for my hobbies.

I think living within one's means is important no matter what one earns, so the person who can afford to send their children to private school but doing so will stretch them financially, that person is likely to be unhappy / have money anxiety, because they aren't living within their means. I know plenty of people in this position.

One bad side can be thinking how it could spoil your kids.

Luckily I'm not at this level (though I think my kids can be a little clueless at times which is not their fault rather mine.)

Money can’t buy happiness in itself but it can buy solutions to problems which cause unhappiness. So I guess it’s more true that lack of money creates unhappiness.
Eg beyond the basics of having shelter and food and clothes. Having a holiday makes you happier. If you had more money you could have an all inclusive don’t watch what you spend holiday in a far flung holiday hotspot rather than a caravan in Bognor. If you were happy with Bognor than a fancier holiday would probably make you happier but if you are the sort to find fault with everything you would probably find fault with a 5* holiday!
I would be happier if I could afford a house with a bedroom for each of my kids, afford to buy clothes that cost more than £5, afford a cleaner so I didn’t have to do it, etc. Now those things don’t buy happiness but they buy me time, space etc so that I can concentrate onthe things that DO make me happy.

I don't think you need to be rich to be happy. But certainly, not having enough money to cover the bills can be utterly miserable.

Not having to constantly worry about money is a relief which can definitely make you happier
Not really because you take not having to worry about money for granted. It's your normality kit to worry about money so you focus on the things that you don't have instead.

It's like people unhappy with life despite being in perfect health. Do people in good health all happy because it's a relief not to suffer from a chronic illness?

Not really because you take not having to worry about money for granted. It's your normality kit to worry about money so you focus on the things that you don't have instead.

Or not. Even if it was i'm sure the millions of people living in poverty would happily welcome some new worries instead if where the next meal will come from or whether they'll still have a roof over their heads in a month or two. Or at least have the luxury to try that hypothesis out.

I feel like people who live comfortably believe money doesn’t buy happiness because your not financially unhappy.

I don't have much money, we are living on 30% of out previous salaries.
I've lost 100% and dh 70% there is no way we'll be financially unhappy.
A roof, food and clothes, no way will I upset myself because I don't have more.
I pity people who get worked up about money, there's no need unless you don't have the basics then of course there's every need.

@Devlesko

I feel like people who live comfortably believe money doesn’t buy happiness because your not financially unhappy.

I don't have much money, we are living on 30% of out previous salaries.
I've lost 100% and dh 70% there is no way we'll be financially unhappy.
A roof, food and clothes, no way will I upset myself because I don't have more.
I pity people who get worked up about money, there's no need unless you don't have the basics then of course there's every need.

I pity people who don't understand that not everyone is in the same situation. Even if you can afford the basics, if that's all you can afford then an unexpected expense can cause chaos. And there's nothing wrong with wanting the occasional luxary even if you like to portray people who do so as greedy and not caring about their family..

There are plenty of happy rich people and plenty of happy poorer people.
Life is easier with money - all these miserable well off people would probably be miserable without it.

Whenever I hear a wealthy person talking about people who need assistance I do think that what most people need it cash to enable them to make their own choices. It is so hard to make decisions if they rely on money that is not accessible. Poverty is a constraint and limiting.