To say to hell with the rule of 6 this Christmas

[Whatafustercluck]

We've been having discussions about who we should have over this Christmas should the rule of 6 still be in place in our region. We had talked to family and my parents wanted my dsis and niece to be able to spend Christmas with us, so the DC can at least be together. Ad a result, they've made alternative plans just the 2 of them. Dsis and her family will do something on their own because she and bil normally do anyway. So, our Christmas was going to be me, dh, our 2 dc, dsis and niece.

Since then, a good friend of ours has told us she has been having tests for ovarian cancer. The medical professionals have prepared her for the worst. The mass is huge. She is preparing herself to be told it's terminal and has already said she will not be having chemo or radiotherapy if it is stage 3. She's completely on her on her own on what could well be her last Christmas. We spoke yesterday and have invited her, meaning we will be 7 this Christmas. She has accepted, saying she doesn't care about shielding and is happy to take the risk.

Our neighbours are lovely and I think would totally understand if we explain. We just couldn't let her be on her own this Christmas after this news and the totally awful year she's already had. Likewise we cannot/ don't want to uninvite dsis.

Aibu?

@Whatafustercluck

I should have said, I know we can't make firm plans really, but dsis and niece seemed like a safe bet because we are her support bubble. I've got no idea about whether we can form 2 support bubbles at the same time though. We will definitely be sensible whatever happens and have been pretty much throughout.

Just so gutted for my friend. She's spent 8 years caring for her mother through alzheimer's. He mum died in May. And now this. Cancer really is the shittiest. I have no words that can adequately express my anger.

You can only form a support bubble with one other household if the other household has no adult support.

I think that the situation is shit, I don't however, think that breaking the rules because it's shit is appropriate either.

As a lone parent, used to being with 20 family members on Christmas (and never missed a year) I've accepted it will be myself and my child only this year. I think that in light of the friend's diagnosis you need to uninvite your sis and niece, explaining why.

Until people abide, all we're going to do is have this continue to spread and have restrictions for longer.

Likewise, if your friend is now in your support bubble, you need to explain this to your sister so she can "bubble" up with perhaps your other sister.

@Heyahun

Just fear that if everyone breaks the rules - then the restrictions will just stay longer - there’ll be hushed outbreaks after Xmas and then half of next year will be locked down again

Surely we can all skip one bloody day Having a big group get together for one year and try get back to normal life sooner

In this ops case - maybe just have the friend seeing as it could be her last year - but tell sister and niece to go elsewhere

Absolutely this.

I agree with @Xenia that there will have to be some thinking done before Christmas or if will be total anarchy. I also agree that the OP’s circumstances are unusual and I think 7 is fine (I have a similar situation with my sister who lives alone with acute mental health issues and will only be able to do about an hour of Christmas-sing but is bubbled with my parents who will be alone if we can’t go and see them, and we are a family of 4. So we will exceed the 6 for an hour at some point on the day I suspect BUT the thing I think is being lost is the distancing thing. So one of the problems we have is that we live far from my parents. We have seen them once since March as we have to stay with them and when we stayed we kept all our stuff in our room, windows open, doors closed, wore masks and had windows open to watch TV and ate at two separate tables or in shifts.

Obviously it was rubbish, but better than not seeing them at all and I felt we were keeping them as safe as we could. My kids are in school. They finish in the 18th and if we are able to see my parents they won’t be having any contact with anyone between 18th and 24th to try and create a window for as long as we can. We will also follow the same irritating rules as above and will prob end up eating at two separate tables for Christmas dinner, or at least with us all bunched at one end and my parents 2 m away at the other.

We are trying to think practically about how to balance the risk that we have the virus with the risk that my parents are alone and depressed and it is really really hard. I don’t see lots of stuff about people trying to do that and I always wonder why not? Everyone seems to be quite all or nothing, when I suspect we need to operate in a much less convenient way to be able to navigate this period.

I normally have 6 on Christmas Day but as we, like half the population, are now in Tier 2, we can't have 6. I imagine the rest of the country will be in Tier 2 or 3 by Christmas.

@Whatafustercluck
I think you are confused over the rules now.

You can either support your sister OR your friend. Not both.

I understand your feelings but I'd also caution about thinking she will not recover. There are different types of Stage 3 cancer for a start. Stage 3 cancer may or may not be in the lymph nodes. Many people with Stage 3 go on to be in remission and live 5+ years.

Has your friend no other friends or family?

She would really be best to spend the day with one other adult or two at the most where they can social distance, BUT if she is by them on chemo or immunotherapy, she may be advised to self isolate anyway as a condition of her treatment.

How many of you are honestly social distancing when following the rule of 6

We are but aren’t hosting indoors as it’s easier to distance and less risk outdoors.

I’ve lost count of the number who seem to think the rule of six or school bubbles over ride the need to distance. It’s little wonder cases are gong up.

@JinglingHellsBells no her only relative in this country was her mum who died in May. She has one sister she is not close to who lives overseas. She has no other close friends in the UK.

We're having Christmas as usual, 6 adults and 2 children (under 12 so not included in the 6) but it's 3 households.

Op, your friend could move in with you. So becoming part of your household (may be something to consider anyway if she doesn’t have support) then as you are your sisters support bubble I don’t think you’d be breaking any rules.

If not in your circumstances I’d break the rules anyway. But then I’m using my own judgment somewhat anyway as I just don’t think the rules make any sense. In theory I could meet up with a different set of six people throughout one day, so my parents, then Dp’s then meet friends then meet another parent with her two dc. All within the rules (although only outdoors for our area at the moment). Dp can still play football with his team and then can go to a beer garden but only with six of them and not inside the pub.

Caring responsibilities are not included. I'd classify this as a caring responsibility as I assume u will be supporting your friend throughout her illness.

In your circumstances I would 100% break the rules! It could be her last Xmas and she’s happy to accept the risk.
I’d make it as nice as I could for her.

In this circumstance its understandable, as is situations such as choosing between a widowed parent or someone you know would be isolated and left behind to keep to rule of 6. I think slight flexes of rules are understandable for this but unfortunately many just seem to plan on taking the piss.

Im getting annoyed with the amount of people I know who are thinking it's the end of the world that they cant have massive Christmas parties with their extended family and neighbours but think it's fine to go ahead because "no one can ruin their Christmas". Surely for one year you can just have one low key Christmas?

Sorry about your friend.

I live in Wales and peole arent supposed to come into local lockdowns without good reason. My son is in the forces and has been on deployment for months. He lives in a barrack block with few people in them. He is going to come home regardless and I am not letting him stay in one room for Christmas. He is also popping home on leave before hand.

Life will be complete shite next year and for the forseeable future anyway what with brexit and the economic fallout of covid

Might as well have one last Christmas

I would recommend listening to this ep of R4’s Briefing Room about why it’s 6 (in short it just sounds better than 7 or 8).

You sound like a wonderful friend and you are doing the right thing.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mk3m

Yanbu

We will be 7 this Christmas.

Everything I've heard from people who have a better idea of this sort of thing suggests they will probably relax the rules for Christmas

I think they know that if they don't people will disobey them anyway

I have lost absolutely all faith in this government. Not that I had much to begin with. I think the rules are often arbitrary and I trust my own risk assessments more than I trust Boris Johnson’s. If any of them were in your situation, OP, they would not think twice about breaking their own rules.

I think it would be utterly reckless for everyone to just carry on as normal, have lots of people from different households over and ignore COVID just for the sake of a nice Christmas. We usually have 11-14 people from 3 or 4 households for Christmas dinner and we won’t be doing it this year. It’s a shame but we all have our own families at home and nobody is vulnerable or alone. In your case, OP, I don’t think that having one additional person who lives a fairly isolated life is presenting a massive risk at all. I think the benefit to her of having companionship and love at an extremely difficult time, vastly outweighs any additional risk. Obviously provided that your friend realises it will be her who is most at risk should any of you be asymptomatic carriers or infected but not yet showing symptoms.

We are going ahead as normal. There will be 12 of us from 3 households. No-one is vulnerable.

In your situation I wouldn’t think twice.

I expect the govt will put in measures from late November to try to get the numbers down as far as possible,

so that they can look good relaxing the rules for a week or so over Christmas

(then cope in January with the resulting surge)

BigChocFrenzy

That's my prediction too.

I think few people would object to a short sharp lockdown if the trade off was a family Christmas.

We are going ahead as normal. There will be 12 of us from 3 households. No-one is vulnerable.

I despair at posts like yours @TheNewLook
You appear to know nothing about how transmission works.

it's not about you and the other 11.

It's about how they can pass it to each other and then infect lots of others.

Do you know that 70% of people with covid have no symptoms but spread it?

I don't know how you don't understand or worse, don't care.

These are extenuating circumstances.

This may be your friend's last Christmas so I can see why it would be best for her to be with others. Maybe have a word with your neighbours and explain?

Everyone else who's just thinking 'fuck it, it's Christmas! I bet everyone else is doing it!' and having more than 6 people round (yes, including kids in numbers) is a twat, though.

To address posts by some in this thread: many single parents have had years of doing Christmas either alone with DC, or alone alone (at least for part of the day), if DC are with their other parent.

It's not great, but perfectly doable, presuming you don't have major mental health problems. It's on day, you plan treats for yourself and phone a friend/relative.

I'm really sorry for the situation with yr friend OP. I might make the decision you are in that situation - although I have to say, I'm thinking there's a vanishingly small chance that households won't be prevented from mixing indoors in all parts of the country by Christmas, unless there's a one day exception or something, which I personally think would be dangerous.

@TheNewLook So let's assume that out of 12 people, 2 have it but don't know.

They pass it onto 3 people each at your dinner. That's 6 more.

Those 6people go back to work/ shopping/ socialising and each of the 6 people pass it on to 2 other people and probably more.
They too may not have symptoms and mix with others, and spread it.

Some of those people who are then infected may be older and die.

So, fine. Go ahead and have your Christmas dinner.