Annoyed that its mostly people in safe jobs that are calling for full lockdown

[dogmad170]

Both mine and my husbands jobs are at severely at risk as we both work in hospitality. I am very swiftly losing patience with people in cushy jobs, where they can easily work from home and where there is little risk of redundancy calling for another full lockdown. Feel like we are being thrown to the wolves! Anyone in the same boat want to vent!

When are the public going to take some responsibility for this? The virus is spread by people so we have all done this to ourselves. It is easy to be tested but it seems that some with a positive result don’t then follow guidelines and stay home and keep the whole household home in isolation. The track and trace working properly could be a really useful tool but how many times have you read on here about people who give false contact details, don’t scan QR codes, and are basically putting a nail I someone’s coffin by their stupidity.

The town centres seem packed, why do people need to go in and go shopping all of the time, totally ridiculous and unnecessary. Pubs packed out, same deal...just why the need.

I feel sorry for people whose jobs and businesses are at risk, I really do, some areas will never recover, I get that, but in the scheme of things we also need to look at the bigger picture and the long term future.

The other difference in some European countries is that they have enforced the rules and have had a huge police presence to stop the stupid, selfish idiots who just don’t care.

Luckily I think that a huge amount of ‘at risk’ People have mostly stayed home and stayed safe. The fear of getting this if you don’t think you would survive is a real game changer. This may help the death rate going forward.

@Molly499

When are the public going to take some responsibility for this? The virus is spread by people so we have all done this to ourselves. It is easy to be tested but it seems that some with a positive result don’t then follow guidelines and stay home and keep the whole household home in isolation. The track and trace working properly could be a really useful tool but how many times have you read on here about people who give false contact details, don’t scan QR codes, and are basically putting a nail I someone’s coffin by their stupidity.

The town centres seem packed, why do people need to go in and go shopping all of the time, totally ridiculous and unnecessary. Pubs packed out, same deal...just why the need.

I feel sorry for people whose jobs and businesses are at risk, I really do, some areas will never recover, I get that, but in the scheme of things we also need to look at the bigger picture and the long term future.

The other difference in some European countries is that they have enforced the rules and have had a huge police presence to stop the stupid, selfish idiots who just don’t care.

Luckily I think that a huge amount of ‘at risk’ People have mostly stayed home and stayed safe. The fear of getting this if you don’t think you would survive is a real game changer. This may help the death rate going forward.

It's really quite simple: human beings are social creatures and cannot be locked up for months on end with no finish line in sight.

Also who gave you the authority to declare which activities are "ridiculous and unnecessary"? Taking that argument to its logical conclusion would mean anything besides eating, drinking and breathing is technically unnecessary and should be banned outright by the government.

I work in the same area and do want a lockdown if I lose my job because of it we will have to claim benefits however I would prefer that then my son or inlaws dying or anyone really we need a short sharp lockdiwn no longer then 4 weeks to gain a bit of control back

I would prefer a lockdown to my mum becoming a widow or my children losing their grandparents.

Nobody's job would be safe with unfettered exponential spread.

Whatever we want the best way to get it is with low levels of Covid infection. I.e. the exact opposite of "let's just go back to normal and come what may"

I work from home but it's not 'cushy' it's incredibly stressful which is why it's well paid. I'm worried about business more that Covid at the moment but the blatant fact is without a full lockdown business will be affected far more.

I’ve just read a - admittedly fairly back of the envelope - calculation in the Spectator which says that lockdown costs something like £25bn a week. So a two week lockdown costs £50bn. And the sage report says it will save 7,000 lives by the end of the year (and realistically some of those deaths will be deferred into next year.) I know you can’t put a value on life, but frankly, that is what NICE does. And £50billion for 7000 lives is... I don’t know. Does it make sense?

[quote cbt944]This.

The concept of ending the Covid pandemic through herd immunity is “a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence”, say 80 researchers in a warning letter published by a leading medical journal.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/ending-covid-19-via-herd-immunity-is-a-dangerous-fallacy[/quote]
By, that was a depressing read. Quite frankly because if

There is no evidence that immunity after recovering from Covid-19 lasts

is true, the vaccine plan will not work either.

A few friends have been posting recently saying covid immunity is only for a month/non existent at all, and stuff like that, while pinning their hopes on a vaccine at the same time. But, if immunity really was that shortlived, then a vaccine would not help. So its definitely not a good thing if immunity is short, and immunity being short would mean the 'wait for a vaccine' plan is..well pointless. So I bloody hope its not true, these people saying its really short. As while it might shut up 'herd immunity' people during whichever argument is being had, it also would mean, we are screwed completely.

I disagree with the 'plan' for herd immunity. But I also see that using 'no immunity' as an argument, means bad things for the current most hopeful solution

It's a very tricky one. I am in a secure job but in Adult Social Care so can see what Covid is doing to our older population and can see that a hard lockdown might be the answer.

However I also have two children in their early 20s whose futures look very precarious because of the economy. I have friends in the hospitality sector who face bankruptcy.

If I thought a really hard lockdown for 2 weeks would be a circuit breaker then I would support it. But I think the 2 weeks would be extended and extended.

My job is as near safe as anyone's can be at this time (home shopping) but I don't want another lockdown.
Selfishly it's more to do with my children missing school especially my eldest who is in Y10. Besides that though another lockdown seems pointless, it didn't work last time and dragged on.
Don't know what the answer is but I do feel for those in hospitality as they seem to have been treated worse than anyone else.
Remember though no one actually has a safe job at the moment.

A few friends have been posting recently saying covid immunity is only for a month/non existent at all, and stuff like that, while pinning their hopes on a vaccine at the same time. But, if immunity really was that shortlived, then a vaccine would not help.

I think you need to read up on the various vaccines being developed. It isn't like that at all. For instance, the Oxford vaccine uses:

the viral vector strategy, with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19, as the vaccine is known, aiming to effectively train the immune system to fight off COVID-19.

www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-01/covid-19-vaccines-and-treatments/12600744

@IronLawOfGeometricProgression

I would prefer a lockdown to my mum becoming a widow or my children losing their grandparents.

Nobody's job would be safe with unfettered exponential spread.

Whatever we want the best way to get it is with low levels of Covid infection. I.e. the exact opposite of "let's just go back to normal and come what may"

There is a huge middle ground between a total lockdown and "unfettered exponential spread" though.

It's possible to vaccinate against diseases that don't create natural immunity. That being said I don't think we can count on a vaccine soon. Maybe it will come but decisions can't be made on that basis.

As for the rest, my sense is that a lot of it is a fool's errand. As someone said above, human beings are social animals and naturally adapt to risk. It's well understood by public health people that behaviour modification in the population at large has a shelf-life. That was one of the main reasons many governments tried not to institute measures too early, they did not want fatigue to set in because they started before it was necessary. The general wisdom if I recall correctly is there is about six to eight weeks you can get people to really change their behaviours, after that it will start to break down.
People can rail against that all they like, but there are certain things about human nature that aren't particularly changeable, at least when you are talking about groups.
Whether a track and trace system is going to ever be effective is also questionable - the results across the globe aren't especially reassuring. It can work where cases are low and you have an enforced lockdown of some kind with people adhering strictly. Attempts to make it work in other conditions are less positive, the apps don't seem great and many people are disinclined to use them for any number of reasons. In my own country, where covid is still moving in the population, they have more or less given up on contact tracing because once people were having larger numbers of contacts when lockdown finished, it was unsustainable - they simply couldn't keep up. Even in my area with only an odd case here and there, they are spending a fortune on people doing the calling required.

There is a reason a lot of governments at the beginning went with the "flatten the curve temporarily" idea, it's because they didn't see anything else as possible. Changing the messaging IMO was cynical on their part, trying to avoid political responsibility over what was almost certainly going to be a very sad state of affairs. It's come back to bite them though because now many people expect that of course they can somehow stop it and keep everything moving along too.

[quote cbt944]A few friends have been posting recently saying covid immunity is only for a month/non existent at all, and stuff like that, while pinning their hopes on a vaccine at the same time. But, if immunity really was that shortlived, then a vaccine would not help.

I think you need to read up on the various vaccines being developed. It isn't like that at all. For instance, the Oxford vaccine uses:

the viral vector strategy, with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19, as the vaccine is known, aiming to effectively train the immune system to fight off COVID-19.

www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-01/covid-19-vaccines-and-treatments/12600744[/quote]
Back to hopeful then.

Not a science person, and clearly have just basic knowledge on vaccines. I get most of my info on shit like that from my sister, who gets it from other staff at work in a hospital! Thats really not good news either, if medical staff are getting it wrong about medical stuff..

Very glad to have been incorrect there then, cheers. Something sort of positive to end the day on.

Very strict lockdown creates all kinds of other logistical problems.

Just read that, and oddly..I am most drawn towards Russias from reading! Though of course, whichever is quickest and actually works and is safe, is perfectly fine by me

@dogmad170

Both mine and my husbands jobs are at severely at risk as we both work in hospitality. I am very swiftly losing patience with people in cushy jobs, where they can easily work from home and where there is little risk of redundancy calling for another full lockdown. Feel like we are being thrown to the wolves! Anyone in the same boat want to vent!

I am annoyed that they need lockdown down everything except healthcare (understandable) and low paying jobs where people can’t afford to get sick

I am glad I could pass on some good news, as the light at the end of the tunnel can seem a bit dim and sometimes flickers!

I am very swiftly losing patience with people in cushy jobs, where they can easily work from home and where there is little risk of redundancy calling for another full lockdown

You are naive to think that such cushy super safe jobs exist

How can you possibly know that?

The town centres seem packed, why do people need to go in and go shopping all of the time

Must have imagined the massive closing down sign in my local Peacocks window then I also must have dreamed what the shop assistant told me about the uncertainty hanging over the store.

www.cityam.com/pandemic-pushes-retail-job-losses-to-125500-this-year/

DH and I are emergency doctors, so probably one of the most pandemic-proof jobs you can get (although 2020 isn't over yet, it could still throw some curevballs...)

I don't want anymore lockdowns.

I don't want anymore lockdowns.

If we need a lockdown then we need a lockdown. If the government are unwilling to support those who lose out during lockdown that's your problem not the lockdown.

No point blaming people who can wfh. Its not their fault.

Sweden is coping fine.
Just learn to live with corona. 65 million population, of course people will always get it and die.

The last thing we need is another lockdown.

The last lockdown will have just killed a different group of people i.e. suicide, undiagnosed cancer etc.

Is it me or are the main people pushing for a lockdown the media?