Annoyed that its mostly people in safe jobs that are calling for full lockdown

[dogmad170]

Both mine and my husbands jobs are at severely at risk as we both work in hospitality. I am very swiftly losing patience with people in cushy jobs, where they can easily work from home and where there is little risk of redundancy calling for another full lockdown. Feel like we are being thrown to the wolves! Anyone in the same boat want to vent!

@TwistAndTout

Yeah a lockdown is a total waste of time.

Agree that a half measured lockdown is fairly pointless.

A short but proper one on the other hand...

I trust the economic, scientific, and medical experts including the IMF, WHO, and BMA.
Like they say, containment is key.

midgebabe

good that vulnerable children are more at risk in a lockdown
good that more women are killed by abusive partners
good that young people miss out on an education
good that people lose their jobs

I'm sorry but a total lockdown is not feasible and I will not comply with any more restrictions on my civil liberties. Who the fuck is going to pay for the NHS without anybody in the private sector paying taxes to fund it?

Also, in our local hospital they were never overrun with Covid patients.

I trust the economic, scientific, and medical experts including the IMF, WHO, and BMA
Like they say, containment is key

Have you got a link to where they say a 2-week lockdown is a good idea?

@TwistAndTout
I said containment.

At this stage it's probably too late to achieve that with a two week lockdown. One month possibly, probably two. Of course it would have to be a proper lockdown - including border restrictions (proper quarantine for essential travel like food imports). Borders to stay shut for a period after lockdown eases. Add in a working test, track, and trace. That's how you do it.

Don't think it applies to everyone - I'm in a pretty secure job (civil service) but the last thing I want is a full lockdown, although tbh in South Wales we're already pretty much in one and have been for the last month.

But isn't it the same as people with young children insisting everything else is secondary to education - pubs, gyms, shops can close as long as schools remain open? Or people living alone pushing for support bubbles?

Surely most people are going to support/be against policies that affect them directly, either positively or negatively?

Still they persist. They can't have failed to see numerous posts clearly and simply explaining the basic facts.

@Mollyboom
It is good news yes that - finally - we have widespread public awareness about domestic abuse. Pre pandemic two women a week were killed by a current or ex partner. Now there's an increased public concern perhaps we'll see more funding and support go to help services.

Civil liberties...! Why not start with a more worthy freeedddom campaign? Currently terminally ill people in the UK only have access to a good death if they have money. Dignitas isn't cheap.

We have no 'civil liberty' to choose a painless dignified death.

I expect I'll also see you heading a legalise all drugs campaign? Afterall banning them is against our 'civil liberties'.

What next? Close down all prisons? People should be free to do whatever they want at all times? Because, 'civil liberties'...

I thought this thread was about people wanting this stupid "circuit breaker" thing. If it's about people calling for an even longer and stricter lockdown, then that's a whole different conversation.

It comes down to the lesser of the evils @TwistAndTout@
What would you prefer. Two weeks on off on off on off again and again and again over the next year, with lots of avoidable deaths and job losses, and higher risk of catching disabling Long Covid?
Or one slightly longer - but just the one - proper lockdown? Personally I'd go for the latter. I want a quicker return to normality.

Re the two week circuit breaker. There still might just be enough time to do it. Unfortunately the government ignored expert advice to do it several weeks ago. Things have got more out of control since then. We need to act very fast if we have any chance of making a meaningful difference. It's time for the government to stop dithering.

Yes being overweight/obese is a risk but if you look at the death statistics most deaths have been in the over 80s and amongst those people with significant co-morbities/ vulnerabilities

Ah, so that’s ok then

@TwistAndTout

I trust the economic, scientific, and medical experts including the IMF, WHO, and BMA Like they say, containment is key

Have you got a link to where they say a 2-week lockdown is a good idea?

That device you're using also has a thing called Google...it's all been widely reported.

I know a lot of self employed people. Whilst prepared to follow social distancing etc, none of them supports a total lockdown. I work in a relatively secure role and I don't either. I'm in the London borough with the lowest rates by far so I'm pretty annoyed we're going to Tier 2 tbh, our rates are a third of that in other parts of London!

The only groups of people I know who support a total lockdown are those working in schools and the NHS. Which I might understand if the same people hadn't spent the last few months totally ignoring rule of 6, not social distancing and not quarantining after foreign holidays...

That device you're using also has a thing called Google...it's all been widely reported

I've read plenty on it and never seen any experts saying that. I'm not gonna waste my time googling for something that doesn't exist.

@Aridane

Yes being overweight/obese is a risk but if you look at the death statistics most deaths have been in the over 80s and amongst those people with significant co-morbities/ vulnerabilities

Ah, so that’s ok then

Did you miss the^ whole "It only kills people who aren't me"^ thing? It's having a resurgence.

Along with, astonishingly, "It's only flu" and "it kills less than 1%"

Now we know why the hospitals were so full. So many people must have been in a coma this whole time.

Some people are really telling us who they are.

Yanbu. The virus isn't going away, we have to learn to live with it. Also what's the point if any 'lockdown' or 'circuit breaker' when so many people treat it as a holiday and break the rules, just another waste of time.

Better to go for herd immunity.

@TwistAndTout

That device you're using also has a thing called Google...it's all been widely reported

I've read plenty on it and never seen any experts saying that. I'm not gonna waste my time googling for something that doesn't exist.

The IMF were in the news two nights ago.

I agree with you. Endless cycles of pointless lockdowns are no good. No what we need is one proper lockdown. WITH closed borders excepting essential travel like food imports (and proper quarantine where required).

Where did you get this idea? Unless you can totally lockdown the entire world for a month or so, food production, healthcare workers, and all the rest, that is not going to have the effect you want. The reason no one has had lockdowns at that level, even nationally, is because it wouldn't be possible.

Most experts and authorities do not recommend lockdowns. This is regularly covered in the news.

I sometimes wonder - do people realise that we already think about deaths of people who are very elderly differently than those who are younger in managing healthcare? Not because the health system is run by asshats, but because it's the only way to do it both rationally and also compassionately. When people plan as if the elderly won't die it tends to produce bad policies that do diddly-squat to help them.

I agree with you. Endless cycles of pointless lockdowns are no good. No what we need is one proper lockdown. WITH closed borders excepting essential travel like food imports (and proper quarantine where required)

But that won’t make the virus vanish. It will simply slow infections happening at once. What do you see as the end game if this is here to stay like the flu for example?

In 2014 / 2015 there were over 28 thousand deaths from influenza. Deaths from influenza are higher than that for Covid in babies and pregnant women. Everyone knows flu can be fatal. We have accepted it as part of life. Because a life with no quality is no life at all.

Now of course, if a lock down would just get rid of it then absolutely, it should be done. But at what point do our lives return to normal if like influenza, it cannot be stopped?

Never?

Learning to live with it means learning how to test trace and isolate ( paid ) people, not just giving up cos it's too hard

Herd immunity is a fallacy, it doesn't exist as immunity doesn't last and it kills the economy just as well as lockdown

Spain had the strictest lockdown in Europe, but as soon as the measures were lifted, the virus came back and now it's out of control again.

This virus won't go away until there's a vaccine, and even with that we don't know how effective it will be long-term.

Learning to live with flu means vaccinating people at risk and having enough hospital beds and staff for the worst years

Herd immunity is a fallacy, it doesn't exist as immunity doesn't last

That's not proven.

No one actually knows how long immunity lasts at this stage. Definite statements make them sound a bit silly.

I sometimes wonder - do people realise that we already think about deaths of people who are very elderly differently than those who are younger in managing healthcare? Not because the health system is run by asshats, but because it's the only way to do it both rationally and also compassionately. When people plan as if the elderly won't die it tends to produce bad policies that do diddly-squat to help them

I’m so glad you’ve said this. It’s almost taboo to discuss because people think that we are saying the elderly don’t matter. This is quite the opposite and something very personal to me which id like to share.

Someone in my family is approaching 94. While not suffering from dementia, she is very forgetful and is often confused. One thing she relies heavily on is family visiting, in particular her son. During lockdown she visibly deteriorated, often saying she wished she was dead and asking why her son ‘wasn’t bothered’ with her any more, wasn’t she loved? Etc etc. This was incredibly distressing for her son. Despite the fact he locked himself away for month so he could safely visit, he was continually denied access. In the meantime, other people were allowed to go to pubs / bars etc then come to work and paint her nails, brush her hair etc while her own son wasn’t able to even hold her hand. Eventually, one of the carers did indeed, bring Covid into the home. Thankfully my family member did not contract it.

However, she did become exceptionally depressed, frightened, confused and wishing death upon herself until finally, after a huge amount of effort / letters / meeting etc, arrangements have been made for the son to visit with safety measures in place. But this has only happened as an exception.

Like many elderly people time is NOT on her side. By being honest about this does not mean they are not cared for. But making their last year or two of life lonely, sad and soul destroying when they ARE going to die soon seems so cruel. Is it a case of ‘well as long as it’s not from Covid’ then it’s ok? Do we stop visiting elderly people full stop every year from now on? Because I worked in a residential home and before Covid every year we would lose several people from flu / pneumonia but keeping people away from families wasn’t considered.