Annoyed that its mostly people in safe jobs that are calling for full lockdown

[dogmad170]

Both mine and my husbands jobs are at severely at risk as we both work in hospitality. I am very swiftly losing patience with people in cushy jobs, where they can easily work from home and where there is little risk of redundancy calling for another full lockdown. Feel like we are being thrown to the wolves! Anyone in the same boat want to vent!

So the hospitality sector deserves to go under because we didn't help ourselves?
Really!
I have no idea what your are is like but the cafes and restaurants in my are, could literally do no more for their survival.

but just looking at the hospitality sector they could have done a lot more to help themselves....they didn’t have to wait to be told.

I think that’s total bollocks frankly.

Much of the hospitality sector have been really pro active in making changes to keep afloat, but it's not enough if you're having to close, or severely restrict numbers. Plus they need to be able to afford it in the first place, the pub here had lost so much revenue during lockdown that when the 'covid safe' measures were revealed, they just didn't have the money to make the neccessary changes, it was a small traditional pub that didn't serve food, such a shame. Add everything else to that, and then it's very cruel to blame them, it's not their fault.

No one is saying that @quarentini but most (bar a few) that I’ve seen have done the absolute bare minimum, and many have flouted the rules or let their punters flout the rules for all to see. More than likely with their eyes on the money rolling in rather than long term survival.

It is difficult to not feel frustration as well as sympathy having seen all that and knowing the sector could have done a lot more: Proper understanding of how the virus spreads (a quick. Google would suffice to educate) Pre booking only, Mandatory ID for track trace, cross referenced with the lead party booking, table service only, masks and visors for staff, enforcing some semblance of distancing between punters, just a few things that yes would be a small bit of extra effort but not much more (especially for bars given the licensing laws they operate under anyway) that would have made a huge difference collectively. Most did the bare minimum though and now look where we are.

If you were at risk of losing your job and the NHS no longer becoming viable because tax revenues collapsed due to another lockdown, would you feel the same way?

@TheKeatingFive

but just looking at the hospitality sector they could have done a lot more to help themselves....they didn’t have to wait to be told.

I think that’s total bollocks frankly.

Our village pub have behaved disgracefully throughout. Back that Friday in March when Boris announced pubs had to close that day, he owner was on local facebook encouraging people to go to the pub for "one last party" before closure - there were hundreds there, spilling on to the street, and the pub ended up being closed by the police mid evening. He did it again yesterday, saying one last party in case our area goes into tier 3 today - same result, the place was heaving, no social distancing at all, spilling out onto the street outside. Sorry, but he deserves all he gets for being so irresponsible.

Lockdown won't work in any form, unless we stop people coming into the country at the same time.
And to the PP blaming hospitality for this - don't you dare until you've walked 2 steps in the shoes of one of the multitude of small, family run businesses within the hospitality industry who are struggling to just cover their costs during this shitstorm that wasn't of their own making. The numbers show an incredibly negligible risk from hospitality venues (likely due to all the stuff they've had to put in place), with almost all cases as a result of school / uni / care homes / hospitals.

@user1497207191

Your anecdote is not representative of the whole hospitality industry though. Just because one pub landlord was irresponsible doesn't mean the millions of people working in the industry deserve to suffer. And also the spouses and children of those millions of people who rely on the worker to pay the bills and put food on the table. Far more hospitality businesses and workers have been as careful as possible whilst still trying to balance making enough money to survive. Not to mention the fault lies as much with all the people in your village willing to go to one last party at the pub as it does with the owner. You can organise a party and provide a venue but it's not gonna be a risk for infection unless other people are willing to go to it. You wanna talk about individual responsibility, you have to blame to punters just as much - a service being available doesn't mean you have to use it.

@Oodlesofnoodles20, I don't have psychic abilities. How do you expect to know that 'both' your 'friends who are teachers' actually means two out of eight? What inference did you expect me to take from your dickish remark on a thread about how easy people who have secure jobs have it?

That you needed two posts to take a pop at me, suggests that you need to take your own advice and 'chill the fuck out'. There's no need to be embarrassed for me. I'm not the one having to justify a stupid, ambiguous post.

Just to remind everybody- lockdown doesn't kill the virus. It just slows transmission and then as soon as you want to have anything resembling normal again it will re-emerge. Endless cycles of lockdown are not viable and the long term consequences far worse for far greater a number of people. Learn to live with it. If you want to stay in your houses then do so, but please don't judge me for not wanting to. I

Crusty job you can work from home not everyone’s job is safe just because we can work from home some people are facing reduced hours contracts amended redundancy don’t assume work from home is safer

@SomewhereEast

And the longer time goes on, the more compliance falls. We won't get spring-levels of compliance this time round, and there will be even less compliance come Lockdown No 3, which people will inevitably be demanding by Christmas. And then what? Lockdown 4? By Lockdown 4 furlough etc won' be happening because there'll be no money left for it.

This is what people were failing to understand when they were criticising the Swedish model months ago for not being draconian enough. They made a trade off in terms of what could be sustained long term without much loss of compliance or goodwill against immediate strict rules causing a sharp dive in cases.

There seem to be some people who just don't understand that human behaviour can only be shaped by rules and policy in a limited way, and no matter how many times you tell them they just need to avoid social gatherings it's not so bad, or "wear a mask and it's easy they do it in Asia all the time", it won't change the fact that it feels abnormal and unpleasant and affects people's social interactions, and so many won't.

@bp300

If you were at risk of losing your job and the NHS no longer becoming viable because tax revenues collapsed due to another lockdown, would you feel the same way?

Job losses and NHS collapse will be because of NO containment measures.

A proper lockdown (with restricted borders) would save the economy and the NHS.

The evidence is staring you in the face - countries who've taken effective containment measures have healthier economies.

If that's not good enough for you, perhaps you might like to listen to the (economic) experts...The IMF have warned of the economic damage of failing to contain Covid.

@Mollyboom

Just to remind everybody- lockdown doesn't kill the virus. It just slows transmission and then as soon as you want to have anything resembling normal again it will re-emerge. Endless cycles of lockdown are not viable and the long term consequences far worse for far greater a number of people. Learn to live with it. If you want to stay in your houses then do so, but please don't judge me for not wanting to. I

How do people 'live with' something that kills them (and kills jobs)?

Or do you think it only kills The Others aka The vulnerable?

Good luck living any kind of normal life without The Expendables. Many are essential workers including doctors, nurses and other HCP, social care workers, teachers and school staff.

I also doubt you'd like to 'live with' disabling Long Covid. Alive yes, living no. Most sensible people would prefer to take action to avoid heart, lung, or kidney damage, type 1 diabetes, and blood clotting issues.

I agree with you. Endless cycles of pointless lockdowns are no good. No what we need is one proper lockdown. WITH closed borders excepting essential travel like food imports (and proper quarantine where required).

That's the way to do it. Strict but ultimately shorter proper lockdown. Ease it up - but keep borders closed. Add in a working test, track, and trace - and job done. A back to mostly normal. Schools, hospitals, offices, shops, pubs, restaurants, gyms, hairdressers, sporting and entertainment venues. All open.

Ok the international travel industry is a bit buggered (temporarily) but that's unfortunately the case for them either way. All we can do is save all the other industries. Which one proper lockdown would do.

@Mollyboom

Just to remind everybody- lockdown doesn't kill the virus. It just slows transmission and then as soon as you want to have anything resembling normal again it will re-emerge. Endless cycles of lockdown are not viable and the long term consequences far worse for far greater a number of people. Learn to live with it. If you want to stay in your houses then do so, but please don't judge me for not wanting to. I

Btw the economic and medical experts disagree with you.

Both the IMF and the BMA recommend containment action. They've warned we can't have a functioning healthcare system, society, or economy without containing Covid.

Actually I don't think scientists or the WHO are suggesting repeated lockdowns

They say they are needed when things get out of control but they recommend not getting out of control by test trace and isolate , which our government doesn't seem to want to do because ...,

Some experts disagree with me- not all. I'm with Jonathan Sumption on this. The mortality rate for Covid is low- lockdown will cause as many deaths and ill health. Just as others make their arguments based on selfish reasons then I have my selfish reasons for not wanting a lock down and I have also had the fucking thing and was absolutely fine.

My OH job is 100% safe, also currently working from home since March, definitely NOT wanting a lockdown

@Mollyboom

Some experts disagree with me- not all. I'm with Jonathan Sumption on this. The mortality rate for Covid is low- lockdown will cause as many deaths and ill health. Just as others make their arguments based on selfish reasons then I have my selfish reasons for not wanting a lock down and I have also had the fucking thing and was absolutely fine.

Bully for you and Lord Sumption.

We had a lockdown in March because the NHS would have fallen over in May if we hadn't and PR stunt hospitals aren't actually any use in a non-PR crisis.

Guess what it does to the death rates for everything If hospitals are over-run?

Good you were fine
Good that the mortality rate is low
Guess you don't care is someone's cancer test is cancelled or treatment halted because hospitals are full of Covid patients

We need to keep numbers low or people die from Covid, people die from missed cancers ,people die from grief, people die from stress ,jobs are lost, food supply is interrupted ... you get the same bad things as lockdown just you kill a lot of other people as well. Wow great plan

Does Jonathan Sumption have much gumption?

I have a job but I am 100% against lockdown. It doesn't work. The whole thing is ridiculous. Shield those who need shielding, let everyone else get back to normal albeit with hand sanitising and masks. Let us develop herd immunity. Tho hold grail that is The Vaccine is more likely to be an annual flu like vaccine rather than a life time measles vaccine.
COVID is here to stay and we need to live with it.
We don't lock down every winter for feat of catching the flu yet thousands die of flu each year.

Yeah a lockdown is a total waste of time.

@SheepandCow

Does Jonathan Sumption have much gumption?

He does for buying his own comfort and convenience with other people's lives

I'm a front line nurse and want a lockdown to prevent the NHS being unable to cope even further. Nothing to do with sitting at home in a cushty job.