To wonder why there are so many posts about how shit being a mum is?

[changednamealways]

I get there will always be people struggling, and things like PND play a big part. But everything is so doom and gloom and everyone on here seems to despise being a mum. Am I the only one who thinks it's not that bad, more the best thing I've ever done? Why do people find this so boring and I find it amazing? And that is with having PND for 3 months after ds was born

Isn't it weird how everyone will see things differently?? I say that because yes there have been alot of threads recently about how crappy having kids is and every time there are loads of replies saying 'no one talks about the bad bits'... Really?!

I know a while ago there was the whole 'super mum' thing on fb etc and it got really competitive, which is obviously not good at all. But if anything I think recently it has swung too much the other way. Every other day you see a thread on here, or an article on a news site or somewhere like Buzzfeed /Redit etc along the lines of 'why I regret having children' '10 things that'll make you glad you don't have kids' 'what it's REALLY like to be a parent' etc etc. And God forbid anyone replies with something positive because obviously they're just being smug or 'rubbing it in' or whatever.

I will also add though, that I think lock down has had a massive impact, as it would of course. Jobs aren't as secure and with kids it's an extra layer of worry. You're more isolated and everything is just that bit more of a faff so the daily grind can be even more... Grinding!!

Exactly Notofthisworld!

And yes, Namechange8471 As long as a child feels loved, I think we are all intelligent enough to allow mother's a degree of ambivalence when looking back at their experiences of motherhood. Seen through a filter of "career" and "self-fulfillment" it may not be so great. But seen through a filter of maternal affection and pride it could be A++. The teen years ime are very hard because you aren't able to dive in and solve problems like you once could, so fwiw, I think the overall assessment is best done when they are young adults and not before.

The main bit I don’t understand is why people continue having children when they don’t like having one. It’s hardly going to get easier. Some of the people on the other thread had 4 or 5 children.

@Fivebyfive2

I think that's a different thing. If there was an article which claimed parenting in general was awful and implied everyone secretly hated it I could understand someone wanting to share their positive experiences. That's not the same as someone commenting something smug to a specific person who is struggling.

I think in general though it is still socially unacceptable for people to express ambivelance towards having had children. Even to say 'look I love my kids and I don't regret them but it's made XYZ in my life worse' is often met with derision. (You should be grateful etc). It's fine to say 'I'm frazzled' but not to express deeper feelings of unhappiness.

I also think some people are somewhat naive in suggesting people should just 'get help' to overcome unhappiness. Yes if you're depressed or in a bad relationship, or unhappy being at home with young kids it's possible you can get help and your situation will improve. However some people are genuinely living in horrible situations. A single parent with no support network, children with complex needs who don't sleep and require intensive long term care, people with complex mental health or PTSD where mental health help is scarce and inadaquate. For these people there is simply no way of just feeling more positive about their situation and often no help is available.

I agree with that not. But I would argue that it is the specific set of circumstances not children as such there. Complex health needs will place huge and difficult problems on anybody, even those who are wealthy.

Complex health needs will place huge and difficult problems on anybody, even those who are wealthy.

Absolutely they will but if you're also struggling financially they'll compound all kinds of other issues. It will mean you can't get help with cleaning, you have to try and shop around for food while also caring for children with complex needs, you won't be able to afford a car to travel and getting around on public transport may be impossible. I would say it's incredibly difficult with all the money in the world, if you also have not enough money it can be much much more so.

@NotOfThisWorld, some really good points there and reading through I agree I was probably thinking more about general articles rather than posts from a specific person.

I just always find it odd when, either on posts on here or the more general articles, I always see so many people saying how no one talks about the not so great parts of parenting because it seems that it is much more openly discussed nowadays than before. And that is a good thing in lots of ways because people should be able to talk about (and hear about!) all sides of a situation!

People who don't like reading a certain type of post/article can always scroll past.

@Fivebyfive2 I agree and there are definitely militant child free people who are desperate to believe parenting is shit for everyone and anyone who says any different is clearly lying. I just think it's a bit unkind to try and silence the minority of parents who are genuinely deeply struggling and having a shit time. In that situation I can't imagine feeling the need to tell people what I love about parenting. Obviously I wish no one felt like they regret having children - it's a pretty terrible situation for everyone involved - but if they do there should be places they can talk about it.

@NotOfThisWorld, exactly! I mean, the Internet is a biiiiig place, plenty of room for all platforms to voice their view and offer support, or so you would think. By all means read through all the different perspectives, even (or especially) the ones you don't agree with to get a different view on life. But why bother tearing each other down?? Just read and move on or don't read at all!

I say this as someone who actively avoided a lot of websites / forums when I was struggling to conceive and had a miscarriage because I couldn't read all the negative articles etc about people who had kids and wished they hadn't. But that was my issue, so I just didn't read them. I never assumed the people struggling shouldn't be talking about it or weren't genuine and in need of support.

My DH and I adopted my DDs because I was infertile. Do I regret it? No, never. They’re 11 and 8 now and I love them both. But DD1 has SEN and is very hard work. Would I have adopted if I knew then what I know now? It’s a question I can’t answer and don’t really think about it. We have them now and do our best for them.

I grew up with an abusive F and a DM who wasn’t around enough to realise what was happening to my siblings and me. They actually wanted to have us and yet nevertheless we suffered abuse.

I don’t always feel love for my DDs. It’s hard to feel the love when DD1 is throwing things or when she tried to hit me with a rounders bat. But we do the best for them both and I do have moments when I’m taking DD1 to school when she talks to me about what’s on her mind.

In reality, it’s better if a mum who is doing her best but is struggling comes onto Mumsnet and vents about how hard she’s finding it but then can’t cope and shouts at her DC that she never wanted them anyway. (We all have times when we’re struggling, so judging posters who tell the truth isn’t kind at all.)

I meant that it’s better for posters to come onto Mumsnet to vent about how hard they’re finding parenthood than for them to keep it inside and then snap, and tell their DC that they never wanted them at all. (Which in most cases isn’t true, they’re just in a bad place and need someone to talk to.)

[quote changednamealways]@SharpLily if you look what this person replied, they said they never felt any love for their children. I was talking to that poster specifically, not someone like you who has a normal relationship with their dc [/quote]
Your thread seems to be all over the place. You start a thread moaning about people moaning about motherhood, then you say it’s directed at a specific person, then you say it’s normal to moan about motherhood 🤷‍♀️. Not sure what the point of the whole thing was really.

I hear that mittens

What is distinctive to me between the two is the first sort of post which might say something like i adopted DD in 2018, and she’s great but I’m struggling so much with some stuff. She has special needs and it’s incredibly hard work.

No one could object to that.

Compare that to i adopted DD two years ago and it I could I’d give her back. I hate everything about being a parent and I just am bored all the time being at home with her

@rainyoutside But if a mum feels like she's bored all the time, and she wishes she could give her child back it's healthy to vent those feelings. My reaction to that wouldn't be 'yes your DD is awful give her back'. I would probably try to reassure her that what she's feeling is incredibly common, particularly with a difficult adoption. That is why many adoptions break down. What value is there in your 'objecting' to the latter? Does that help the mum or her adopted child? Do you think the situation would be improved if she never spoke about her feelings or rebranded them to make them more comfortable for you?

Imagine if you knew your mum regretted having you, you'd be heartbroken
I was abandoned in a hospital cot, that one definitely regretted having me.
My adoptive mother wasn't exactly thrilled with what she ended up either.
I don't have to imagine it.

People are still entitled to their feelings though. And I'd rather someone owned up to it, talked it through,asked for advice and support rather than keeping it all in and resorting to unhealthy or destructive coping mechanisms.

Not everyone likes the same stuff you do. Accept it and deal with it.

I guess you could go to a breast cancer support group and gloat over the fact that you don't have it.

It depends whether you want to be THAT type of wanker really.

Outside of the obvious problems with the comparison, I get the analogy however that’s not how I see it. I’d see it more as ‘stumbling into a cancer support group by accident, being completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of people there, and then saying to people OUTSIDE of the meeting “I had no idea so many women had cancer.”’

I struggle though with the post that inspired this one because the OP didn’t say “I hate motherhood, anyone with me?” but rather “why doesn’t anyone tell you how awful motherhood is?”. In my opinion “it’s not that awful for me” is a valid response. If that poster only gets responses that agree that it’s awful (and we’re not talking bad day, we are talking overwhelmingly hating the whole experience) then she’s possibly going to start believing that everyone feels the same which isn’t particularly helpful in terms of finding a way to deal with it. However, the more I read that particular post, the more I could see that the OP needed support, not to hear that other people have a different experience.

I happen to think the OP is perfectly reasonable to walk away from that group (clearly her input wouldn’t be useful) but to discuss what she read with a different group of people if what she read was confusing or upsetting.

It’s about language.

Funnily enough I’ve had this conversation recently on here.

‘Caring for my elderly dad is so difficult as he is incontinent, I’m exhausted from getting up in the night to sort him and he’s confused and sometimes aggressive.’ Totally fine.

‘I’m fucking sick of my deranged old bastard of a dad shitting and pissing through the night’ - some would say that’s fine, because the poster is venting and maybe. I wouldn’t judge but I would hesitate to offer support.

I can’t remember who said it but thoughts become words, words become actions, actions become habits, habits become your character.

Adopting a complaining and resentful tone talking about your children is dangerous. It isn’t likely to lead anywhere good or happy or conducive for anybody.

@rainyoutside

I hear that mittens

What is distinctive to me between the two is the first sort of post which might say something like i adopted DD in 2018, and she’s great but I’m struggling so much with some stuff. She has special needs and it’s incredibly hard work.

No one could object to that.

Compare that to i adopted DD two years ago and it I could I’d give her back. I hate everything about being a parent and I just am bored all the time being at home with her

Some people do feel like that. Sometimes adoption does break down and children go back. Sometimes parenting does break down and children go and live with someone else.

Who are you to decide what someone else can feel? Who are you to decide whether they can talk about it or not?

I’m not. Adoptions do break down of course. Is it in anyone’s interests to say ‘these kids actually annoyed the shit out of me’?

@rainyoutside

Again you're completely failing to answer the point being made. Everybody understands what is different about the two comments. One is expressing tiredness and some on going difficulties the other is expressing extreme frustration and possibly someone failing to cope. It is not for you to determine how much someone is struggling and how they express it.

People don't feel that way about their children because of the words they use, it happens the other way round. They're at the end of their tether and are expressing how they feel. You demanding that they sanitise it because it makes you feel uncomfortable isn't helping them and it isn't helping their child. If you can't offer support to someone because of the way they phrased their surely that's a weakness in you. Someone who is so frustrated and overwhelmed they're expressing things in such an extreme way is probably much more in need of help. If you claim to be so concerned for their child why wouldn't you be more inclined to offer help?

it is not for you to determine how much someone is struggling and how they express it

I disagree tbh. Basic respect should be a given. The language used about children in these threads is often quite unpleasant. But anyway, I don’t. I mostly leave those threads well alone. I’m discussing it here precisely because it isn’t one of those threads.

they are at the end of their tether and expressing how they feel

Sure. But it’s not particularly helpful. It just invites numerous complaints about the horror that is life with children and offers little hope for the future.

@rainyoutside

I’m not. Adoptions do break down of course. Is it in anyone’s interests to say ‘these kids actually annoyed the shit out of me’?

As long as it's not said to the children why wouldn't it be? Prettifying and minimising feelings shouldn't be mandatory in the quest for advice of support. If you can't deal with raw emotions/despair/heartbreak and honesty, then that's your problem.

You really think that’s an acceptable thing to say then we are on different pages with this.

It doesn’t matter if it isn’t said to the children. Once it’s said, it becomes acceptable.

@rainyoutside

Don't be ridiculous. No one would wish for someone to feel that way about their children. The fact is some people do. Then you're left with how best you can deal with the situation. Telling them the way they feel is unacceptable doesn't help them or the child. That prevents that person discussing their feelings and getting help.

Yes those feelings makes us all feel uncomfortable, it's not nice to accept that parenting can go so wrong. What makes sense though is to be pragmatic and try to help. Not simply stamp your feet and say 'no you can't feel that way it isn't nice'.

I'll break it down for you. People feel this way whether or not you or I consider it acceptable. Them expressing their feelings isn't what created those feelings. They were there anyway. Expressing them though does opem up the possibility they might get help and improve the situation. You saying 'sorry your feelings aren't acceptable' doesn't help anyway - except perhaps that it makes you feel superior.

Feel however you want. But endless complaints won’t change things. People have the right to rant about circumstances, but not (IMO) about the children they chose to bring into the world. Put simply they deserve better.