... to ask my sister to stop seeing our parents?

[PluralPatty]

I’m ready to get flamed for this but I genuinely don’t know what to do. Namechanged as my other posts are too outing.

DSis is in her fifties, good health, works full time in a school, goes to the gym and eats and drinks out regularly. Visits the supermarket daily, salons, takes public transport for leisure purposes, has travelled about the country and generally carries on as pre-Covid, says she’s not really at risk, which is true. Her DH same and she has 4 DCs of varying ages between 15 and 24 who, as most younger people, are also doing stuff socially as well as being at work/school. All good, no problem with this at all.

However, she goes round to our parents’ place several times a week, maybe more. They’re both in their 80s, dad is frail after a series of strokes but considering everything, they do ok. DSis takes them groceries and other things, sometimes takes them out to cafes or the cinema etc, the usual stuff, only we’re not in usual times, are we?

My problem here is that I think she is unnecessarily exposing our parents to Covid and I think she should stop seeing them, or at least cut down a lot. There are 4 of us siblings and one lives abroad and has not been able to visit since Covid but of those who live locally, we all pull our weight equally with the parents. I’m lucky enough to be able to work from home and have decided not to return to the gym and haven’t been socialsing really, DB the same. We are both much better placed to be making sure our parents have everything they need, yet DSis cannot seem to see this and clearly cannot see the risk to our parents here.

Cases are growing round here and I am seriously worried about DSis passing on Covid to my frail parents. AIBU?

@LizzieAnt but the DB is fuming? He has no right to be fuming, he can be concerned but fuming is absolutely out of order.

Saying but we don't want our parents to die prematurely, it's actually not about what the OP and her fuming brother want. If the DPs want to continue their life and live a full social life etc, they have that choice.

In fact OP should be saying, can I take you out, where would you like to go. Not have them sat at home as miserable as sin.

Of course they have that choice and it's up to them. No harm in having a chat to make sure this is their choice though. The OP indicated earlier that they may be unaware of how much her sister is socialising. They may - or may not - wish to change things if they have all the information.

And I don't think the OPs intention is for them to become isolated and 'as miserable as sin'. In fact, reading her posts, I'm sure it's not.

@Lillysnotroses but smokers are not contagious though. Breathing in their smoke once won't give you a contagious disease. I mentioned it because many smokers say "well I'll die happy" because they don't really think its going to happen. But rather than die, they are much more likely to get a smoking related condition which will impact their future health and quality of life.
Yes. I agree that Students and young people are being scapegoated, and although its only a minority, according to press reports people are complaining about them going out, not socially distancing, not always wearing masks etc.. and saying they are risking other people's health too. I am not sure how OP's sister is behaving any differently.

Well if you are going out your not SD so it’s the same thing ultimately.

OP seems to have exaggerated but if she feels her sister is posing a risk she could have a gently word however I think it’s their parents choice ultimately.

@WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo

If I'd got to their ages I'd rather my final months were spent spending time with my DD and going out to have fun than sitting at home waiting for death to happen.

YABU. Leave them be.

Yep

But they are not in their final months... and they can still go out whilst social distancing.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

But they are not in their final months... and they can still go out whilst social distancing.

There is no way of knowing that. I didn't think my Dad was in his final months. The next day he was dead.

The ageism in this thread is depressing and reads very much like the “only the vulnerable” excuses used for risking other’s health. One of my very best friends is 90 and although her life has been severely restricted by the pandemic, she still tries to make the most of her time, without risking her health. Her adult sons are doing everything in their power to protect her and she has a very tiny group of friends that she has visit, but again they do it in a very safe way. Outside or in the conservatory with all the windows open and well distanced. She wants to continue living and talking to her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren on FaceTime. She wants to continue sending them little gifts and hearing all about their achievements and how they’re filling their days. She’s not ready to die. Any death by Covid is a death too early.

It’s easy to say how you’re going to feel and think when you’re 80, when you’re nowhere near that age.

Exactly, there are more than two possible outcomes here.
It's not at all as simple as a choice between
A. Go out and have fun and risk Covid/death
or
B. Stay home safe and miserable.

Could they be a little more careful perhaps, and still have fun which I think is what the OP is suggesting? Lower their risk while still enjoying life? Something like the scenario described by @DeliciouslyFemale.
If they get Covid they may not die, but they may have many more years of poor health/suffering as a result. That's a possibility too and shouldn't be ignored.

@bettsbattenburg. I agree there is no way of knowing when any of us are going to go and I'm really sorry to hear about your Dad that must have been a shock.
The OP didn't say they had a terminal condition, she said despite the Dad's health problems they were doing OK. My GM lived to 102 and was still fit as a fiddle in her 90s, as are our other elderly relatives in their late 80s. Family takes it in turns to visit them, carefully. They still see people and go out taking precautions.

There is absolutely nothing the sister is doing that breaches any covid guidelines if she is wearing masks when she is supposed to though (such as on the public transport, which I assume she is or she would be not allowed on) so I can't see what the issue is.

Well, where I am, people are being asked (begged) to cut back on their socialising. Does that count?

It’s easy to say how you’re going to feel and think when you’re 80, when you’re nowhere near that age.

I agree that many people in their 80s and 90s still enjoy their lives in spite of the infirmities of old age, but equally I've known quite a number who'd had enough of life. I've worked in care and volunteered with the elderly and I've seen people sitting literally screaming their heads off in terror, anger and frustration that they were still alive with no quality of life. Living into your 90s or beyond is not automatically a good thing. It depends on so many factors but particularly a reasonable quality of life and personally I'd rather go at say 80 than have another ten years of infirmity or spend a single day with dementia.

Any death by Covid is a death too early.

Why? I don't think that's true at all. Why is it true of Covid but presumably not heart attacks, strokes, cancer, flu, pneumonia or any of the myriad of other things that could happen to us. What exactly is it ok to die of? Dying in your 80s or 90s is not a premature death at all and Covid is as natural a death as any other.

Besides in some cases it's a blessing. My Grandmother had dementia and COPD. What the dementia did to her was staggeringly cruel. Far more barbaric than Covid imo and when she fell, broke her hip and developed pneumonia and died it was a relief to know that her suffering was over. J've witnessed similar stories with othet dementia patients. Living can be every bit as cruel as death or more, and while I'm in favour of ensuring the elderly people the best quality of life, sometimes more harm is caused by actively prolonging lives of people who are suffering terribly. This fixation on quantity over quality is very troubling and in some ways it does feel as though people have only just been confronted with the concept of mortality.

Final months? Wtf? They could live another 20 years!

They could. The likelihood of those being good years are very slim indeed. Whoever said old age isn’t for cissies had it spot on.

The assumption that the 4.5 million who are clinically vulnerable to coronavirus are at death's door "anyway" would be funny if the consequences of such a wilfully ill-informed attitude were not so serious.

I'm specifically talking of the very elderly, not just anyone with vulnerabilities.

My 84 year old mum is here there and everywhere after lockdown and i dont blame her. At their ages they are best enjoying their time.

@MyWitzEnd

My 84 year old mum is here there and everywhere after lockdown and i dont blame her. At their ages they are best enjoying their time.

Would you feel the same about a 23 year old doing the same thing?

Ar 77 my MIL was fit and well. One day she walked 2 miles into town paid some bills, did some shopping, met a friend for coffee. In the afternoon she had a severe stroke and in the evening we were told she was unlikely to survive more than a few days. She did but she can no longer read, write or talk. She is paralysed, incontinent and despite medication recently had a seizure that was so severe it caused a fracture. Just because an elderly parent is fit and well today doesn't mean they will be tomorrow. Life can change in an instant especially as you get older.
I can well understand why any elderly person would be reluctant to spend their home holed up at home not seeing friends and family.

@AllPlayedOut

I'm specifically talking of the very elderly, not just anyone with vulnerabilities.

My mum's mum was 26 years older than my mum is now.

Is my mum "elderly?

Is there a way you could ask her to be very careful around them? She can do all the handwashing and distance and take them out to safe places. Yes they're old but this disease could be avoided hopefully. They are precious and I'm sure you want them around with good quality of life as long as possible. In guessing they want that too x

countrygirl99

That's horrific. Your poor MIL. I'm so sorry to hear that.

The cruelest things I've witnessed were on stroke wards and dementia units. It's utterly barbaric the conditions that many of those people are left in.

Is my mum "elderly?

Is she in her late 70s, 80s or 90s? If so yes then she is.

They need stimulation and normality, my o poo arenas stayed in a flat for 3 mo this .. terrified to even pick up the shopping outside the door. We had a good chat and with careful planning they are out and about. Not taking risks but having a life. It’s such an emotional subject , you and your siblings must agree on what is happening and compromise

If it was me and my sister, I would first of all chat with my sister but we do have a good relationship. My sister hasn't seen our parents since the start because she works in a hospital and is worried about possibly passing something on to them and our parents aren't even high risk. It is up to your parents but if you don't feel they are fully informed of her socialising, tell them. Now isn't the time to keep quiet about your concerns, you'll always have regret if the worst happened and it would create resentment. Be open and honest.