... to ask my sister to stop seeing our parents?

[PluralPatty]

I’m ready to get flamed for this but I genuinely don’t know what to do. Namechanged as my other posts are too outing.

DSis is in her fifties, good health, works full time in a school, goes to the gym and eats and drinks out regularly. Visits the supermarket daily, salons, takes public transport for leisure purposes, has travelled about the country and generally carries on as pre-Covid, says she’s not really at risk, which is true. Her DH same and she has 4 DCs of varying ages between 15 and 24 who, as most younger people, are also doing stuff socially as well as being at work/school. All good, no problem with this at all.

However, she goes round to our parents’ place several times a week, maybe more. They’re both in their 80s, dad is frail after a series of strokes but considering everything, they do ok. DSis takes them groceries and other things, sometimes takes them out to cafes or the cinema etc, the usual stuff, only we’re not in usual times, are we?

My problem here is that I think she is unnecessarily exposing our parents to Covid and I think she should stop seeing them, or at least cut down a lot. There are 4 of us siblings and one lives abroad and has not been able to visit since Covid but of those who live locally, we all pull our weight equally with the parents. I’m lucky enough to be able to work from home and have decided not to return to the gym and haven’t been socialsing really, DB the same. We are both much better placed to be making sure our parents have everything they need, yet DSis cannot seem to see this and clearly cannot see the risk to our parents here.

Cases are growing round here and I am seriously worried about DSis passing on Covid to my frail parents. AIBU?

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

It should be your parents choice.

I just don’t want my parents to die prematurely.
Dying in your 80s when already frail is not dying prematurely. Your parents may feel they would rather see family regardless of risk.

I just meant “earlier than they would have done without Covid”. I’m aware I’ve been lucky enough to have my parents for a long time.

@BeardyButton

Also... It's not JUST what they want. Thats the whole bloody point. Even if some 80 yr olds prioritise going to cafes over not dying of COVID alone, some may not.

Those of us who want to avoid getting COVID (inc the 80 yr olds) NEED people to start thinking collectively. Thinking about the common good, rather than cafes and parties. But it doesn't look like that will happen.

Whatever about COVID, God help us with the climate crisis.... We cant even act for the common good with a clear, obvious enemy like COVID. No way are the same people who refuse to wear masks and bang on about cafes going to do whats necessary to avoid that.

I wear a mask. I keep my distance when out. I wash my hands.

I also visit cafes and restaurants and shops and do my tiny bit towards the economy.

I'd sooner die of Covid than a long slow death by dementia or die after being severely disabled by a stroke

I don’t think people realise just how unpleasant COVID can be for older patients. If the OPs parents were to get COVID chances are they wouldn’t die but they may well have to endure a really awful illness which may leave them with severe and very unpleasant long term health issues. COVID can effect everything - brain, lungs, heart, gut...

My parents are in their 80s and we are seeing them but we are being very careful. There is a massive middle ground between carry on as though COVID doesn’t exsist and living in total isolation.

My mum has just been in hospital, when speaking to her nurse they told me they are seeing many elderly deteriorating really quickly due to lockdown, through not getting out, muscle mass goes really quickly over 70, as does cognitive ability. Just another bad effect of lockdown, obviously the elderly are at real risk of bad effects of CV, but when does it become less beneficial to them to lock away due to it? I’m sure they can decide for themselves to be honest, don’t get too worried about it, and let them keep their autonomy.

@Ilovemypantry

I don’t think you are being at all unreasonable. If I were you I would feel exactly the same. You need to have a talk with your DSis explaining how she is putting your parents at risk of getting the virus. Your parents may not be aware of how much she is socialising as well as her DH and DC. I’m sure they don’t want to catch Covid as at their age and with other health issues it could be very serious for them. You will need to be firm with your DSis as she has obviously not thought this through properly.

Why the assumption that her parents don't watch/read the news and are terminally stupid?

I know what Covid can do thank you. I'd still take it over dementia and many other things that I've seen people suffer. It's far from being the only horrific thing that can happen to someone. It's just one of many possibilities and personally I see little benefit in worrying oneself into a knot over it, especially to the extent that you hide away forever, doing nothing and seeing no one, potentially for something else to kill you instead. And again not everyone over 80 is seriously ill with it, let alone dies.

@SirVixofVixHall

I agree with you OP. Your parents may be in their eighties, but they could live another ten years, why risk Covid killing them before their time ? Also as your Dad is frail, has your sister taken on board that if he was seriously ill in hospital he might not be allowed any visitors and could die alone ? My MIl is in her eighties, very fit and well, but obviously higher risk because of her age. We are being extremely careful, Sil is not. Her husband works in a school, and they live in a city, yet they visit MIl.

I really hate the attitude on here that the over 75s are about to die anyway so why bother. Many people live into their nineties now.

No. The attitude on here is that anyone over 70 is either in their dotage or childlike and is incapable of making their own decisions.

The OP has told us that they don't realise how much her sister is socialising though. Difficult for them to make an informed decision then.

@LizzieAnt only takes one person though l.

I just meant “earlier than they would have done without Covid”. I’m aware I’ve been lucky enough to have my parents for a long time.

You could say this about anything though, the fact is that we all die of something. If that something didn't exist we'd die of something else. Most older people die of things like respiratory infections, flu, cancer, heart disease. If we could eliminate them all we would live forever, bt that's just not going to happen.

Your sister is an adult as are your parents. The choice is not yours.

@Goosefoot

I just meant “earlier than they would have done without Covid”. I’m aware I’ve been lucky enough to have my parents for a long time.

You could say this about anything though, the fact is that we all die of something. If that something didn't exist we'd die of something else. Most older people die of things like respiratory infections, flu, cancer, heart disease. If we could eliminate them all we would live forever, bt that's just not going to happen.

Yes, anything could get them. Or me, for that matter, but we can’t do a lot about most of them, Covid we can. I don’t think I’m alone in worrying about this when we’re in the middle of a pandemic.

Oh dear,I can see your point op but honestly maybe at their ages let them enjoy life. My parents died at 67 and 68, that is dying prematurely

Don't worry OP, there are lots of posters who think the taking of a single precaution must mean that mortality is breaking news to you. 'Oh, oh! You washed your hands, did you....you do realise you could drop dead at any minute! Do you want to waste your last seconds on earth on soap and water?'

@Inkpaperstars
I agree. We haven't a hope against Covid have we? Reading this thread has been really worrying. Roll on the vaccine!

@WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo

If I'd got to their ages I'd rather my final months were spent spending time with my DD and going out to have fun than sitting at home waiting for death to happen.

YABU. Leave them be.

Agree

I think your sister is being unreasonable. If she wants to be out and about then she should be considerate of your parents and wear a mask when she's in the house with them!

I just meant “earlier than they would have done without Covid”.

If it wasn't Covid it would be something else. I think an element of this is you needing to come to terms with your parents frailty and ultimately their mortality.

Have you discussed this with her and your parents? Have you explained the increased risk to both your parents and sister?

I personally think it’s your parents decision to make - if they have capacity.

Is your sister taking precautions when out and following Government direction around bubbles/contact/socialising? If she is within government guidelines I wouldNt question it.

Work and school yes fine as lots in place bubbles wise. Hairdressers fine - mine is like fort Knox the way I’m processed around the room with huge amounts of ppe.

Daily food shop not ideal but is she masked and hand sanitising and maintaining distance?

Public transport - is it within guidelines

Socialising - is it within guidelines?

Those being sanguine about the OPs parents dying from Covid... all I can say is REALLY?

I’m sure the OP knows that they are old and will pass away at some point but Covid is horrible. They’ll be alone and no visitors allowed.

The sister is mixing a lot, including with schools and with her own children who will be mixing. She may well get it but be asymptomatic.

The OP is right to feel concerned.

Let them make the decision
Understand your concern 100%
But .... it’s not your decision to male
?

Op you can certainly feel concerned, but it's up to your parents how much risk they take.

Very interesting book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. Great point - when we make decisions for ourselves, we will often choose autonomy over the safest option. When people make decisions for their elderly parents, they often value safety over autonomy. He makes the point in relation to choosing living arrangements for elderly relatives, giving examples of families who chose the safest option, although they acknowledge that were their parents still able to choose, they would never have made that choice themselves and would have hated it.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KM46CSS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Your parents are still able to choose, so I would suggest letting them do so, and if it makes you feel uneasy or concerned then find a way to manage those emotions yourself.

Our parents have all made different decisions of how much risk they are willing to take with covid and we have let them decide what they do.

If your parents are unaware of your sister's lifestyle then that could prompt a conversation with them. But if they know she works in a school and her teenage children are at school, I don't think them also socialising and eating out would substantially change the risk equation for them? If you think that does substantially change things and they might decide differently then you could mention in passing some of things your sister's family are doing, but it may be that your parents make the same decision.

@PluralPatty

I didn’t post for reinforcement, I posted because I genuinely wanted to know if I was being unreasonable. Clearly I am so I’m not going to say anything

your not i get you

@PluralPatty

I didn’t post for reinforcement, I posted because I genuinely wanted to know if I was being unreasonable. Clearly I am so I’m not going to say anything

your not i get you