... to ask my sister to stop seeing our parents?

[PluralPatty]

I’m ready to get flamed for this but I genuinely don’t know what to do. Namechanged as my other posts are too outing.

DSis is in her fifties, good health, works full time in a school, goes to the gym and eats and drinks out regularly. Visits the supermarket daily, salons, takes public transport for leisure purposes, has travelled about the country and generally carries on as pre-Covid, says she’s not really at risk, which is true. Her DH same and she has 4 DCs of varying ages between 15 and 24 who, as most younger people, are also doing stuff socially as well as being at work/school. All good, no problem with this at all.

However, she goes round to our parents’ place several times a week, maybe more. They’re both in their 80s, dad is frail after a series of strokes but considering everything, they do ok. DSis takes them groceries and other things, sometimes takes them out to cafes or the cinema etc, the usual stuff, only we’re not in usual times, are we?

My problem here is that I think she is unnecessarily exposing our parents to Covid and I think she should stop seeing them, or at least cut down a lot. There are 4 of us siblings and one lives abroad and has not been able to visit since Covid but of those who live locally, we all pull our weight equally with the parents. I’m lucky enough to be able to work from home and have decided not to return to the gym and haven’t been socialsing really, DB the same. We are both much better placed to be making sure our parents have everything they need, yet DSis cannot seem to see this and clearly cannot see the risk to our parents here.

Cases are growing round here and I am seriously worried about DSis passing on Covid to my frail parents. AIBU?

I can understand why you are upset and worried about their health but they are your parents and must be allowed to decide whether to see your dsister or not. They may well feel that they are both over 80 and may not have many years left so do not want to be cooped up on their own. Hopefully the vaccine will be available soon and then they will be safer. Try not to fall out with your sister as this will only upset your parents.

@bettsbattenburg so sorry to hear what happened to your Dad. That must have been so hard for you with it being so sudden.

I know everyone is fed up with the Coronavirus and restrictions but I'm sick to death of all the whining stupidity that alot of people have come out with over the last few months in particular because they have to make an effort with masks and Social distancing to keep other people safe. I'm a carer in the community and bar 2 weeks when I MIGHT have had Covid in April (thanks to a clients family member who coughed over me & didnt bother to get someone to tell me they had been hospitalised with Covid - they were in Int Care for 2 months), I've worked continuously with my clients visiting them in their home. I go to people ranging from 70 up to 99 years old. They have COPD, severe asthma, terminal Cancer, severe Parkinsons, Dementia, some have mental health issues and others severe MS. Some of them are just frail because of old age or illness, others immobile but completely mentally with it. Some need hoisting in and out of bed or chairs and are in constant pain. There are those who are physically in perfect health but cant remember to eat or wash their clothes. None of these people are 'past it' because of their age or conditions. None of them deserve to be put at risk because they are ill or elderly and already 'lived their lives'. I agree the isolation for the elderly was and is dreadful. I saw how hard that was first hand. But my patients are lucky, because bar 1 family, all the rest of their families have made an effort to keep them safe. It meant that some of them spoke through the window during lockdown, others masked up before bringing the shopping in. Some of those choices in lockdown were hard for them and hard for their families. Now all of my people have their families visiting, some are taken out, others not, BUT the families are doing so responsibly and in ways to minimise risk. Since lockdown or shielding officially finished they havent stopped seeing their parents, they are visiting but with sensible precautions. Covid is a horrible way to die choking and straining to breathe, and mostly people end up dying alone with it because their loved ones cant be there with them. My patients deserve the best possible care and all the necessary precautions from me AND their visiting families. Putting abit of effort in by cutting back abit on your own personal 'normal actvities' that might make you a risk to them or ensuring you've masked up, gloved up and sanitised before seeing an elderly or ill person should be be something you do because being able to help them, see them, spend time with them safely is more important than your own personal gratification or desire to have your all old life back to how it was before Covid. We arent in 'normal' times, we are in a pandemic that isnt going away until there is a vaccine. And it's on the verge of getting alot worse so we all need to buck up. So we have to adhere to a few annoying precautions and restrictions if we are seeing loved ones who are frail in order to keep them safe- boo bloody hoo. Get over it. Try wearing and changing in and out of full PPE (or my Sauna suit as I called it) for 8-12 hours a day in the summer to keep patients safe. My colleague and I sorted out enhanced infection control procedures for our day to day lives AND Athose of our household family members to follow 2 weeks before lockdown started to make sure our patients stayed safe. I've been masking and gloving up to go shopping since mid March. And during lockdown I stopped going shopping at all to keep my people safe. My patients choose to have a carer going into them. But I'm going into my patients' homes, so the least I can do is to choose to take the responsibility to ensure I'm doing all I can to keep them safe in their homes. And I want to keep my own family safe as well. If the OPs sister ends up infecting her parents, the parents could pass that on to the OP, her other siblings and their families and they in turn pass it on to others. Thats how a pandemic works. If people arent sure check out how Covid 19 has been passed around the White House because people there are determined to ignore how the Coronavirus spreads. We are all responsible for each other. And if we are visiting elderly or ill people especially loved ones that means making more of an effort not less.

OP I think this needs an airing with your siblings and your parents to find out exactly what their wishes are and your dsis will know how strongly you and your db feel. They may not want to take such a risk but not feel able to say so. But they may rather she visited and you would just have to accept that.

My parents are also in their 80's but both fit and healthy. They are doing all they can to stay safe and are basically shielding. They certainly do not have the mindset of "we are in our twilight years and so we'd be happy to let our current quality of life outweigh the risks we take". However they live in an area with local lockdown rules anyway.

Your feelings are not unreasonable. But, your parents are taking an acceptable level of risk if your sister is genuinely following the guidelines - social distancing, PPE, handwashing and sanitising, etc. I wish you and your family good health. x

But, your parents are taking an acceptable level of risk if your sister is genuinely following the guidelines - social distancing, PPE, handwashing and sanitising, etc.
Increased socialising means increased risk even if you're following all the guidelines. I don't think it's fair to pass on that risk to elderly parents. The OP's sister could be making more of an effort to protect them imo.

YANBU I'd feel the same. Have a chat with your sister and vouch your concerns

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff @LizzieAnt thank you both.

Maybe one in which your loved ones can gather and spend your last moments with you, holding your hand, saying your last words?
Sentimental nonsense. I was with my DM when she died and it was horrific. She was completely out of it on pain relief medicine Not to say I didn't want to be there because my DF was there too and we supported each other.
OP YABU.

Op you are being totally unreasonable. Unless you are staying at home washing your hands and never even visiting a supermarket you are not in a position to comment and are being highly controlling. Yes, she might have more chance of passing it on but equally you could be the one that catches it and passes it o them. Or they could just get really ill and die anyhow - at least they would have enjoyed themselves.

It sounds like your sisters’s way of coping with everything at the moment is to pretend everything is normal. (But it isn’t). That wouldn’t be as bad if she was living on her own with no dependents, as it would be her choice.

It is still her choice how she lives her life, especially if she is not breaking any rules, but most of us with dependents (whether children or elderly relatives etc) have adapted our lives to a certain extent to minimise our social contacts/risky situations etc. It doesn’t sound as though your sister has done that at all?

Even with masks, public transport, shopping and socialising does carry increased risk. It’s obviously ok to do, but in our family we have cut it down to lessen the chances of our children having to isolate from school and miss their valuable education.

In this case in my opinion YANBU

Agree with @derxa - I've been present at two deaths and neither were beautiful moments. Frankly they were both fairly distressing and the dying person had absolutely no idea what was going on/who was there

I absolutely think you and your DB should feel free to ask your sis to either limit social contact and use of public transport OR to reduce her contact with your parents. That's going to end up in a massive row.

My DD has travelled three to my Widowed Mums in the last two months, we live 5 hours away, she spent a week there and then comes home.
My mum said it's worth what ever the risk too have the company. Mum says the being alone is like being buried alive.

@Eyewhisker

If your dad died of a stroke tomorrow, your sister would be really glad that she’d seen them so much.

And if he died instead of Covid in two weeks' time after a long painful period desperately struggling to breathe and drowning in his own secretions, would she still be glad?

@derxa

Maybe one in which your loved ones can gather and spend your last moments with you, holding your hand, saying your last words? Sentimental nonsense. I was with my DM when she died and it was horrific. She was completely out of it on pain relief medicine Not to say I didn't want to be there because my DF was there too and we supported each other. OP YABU.

No-one can speak for anyone else when it comes to a being with a loved one when they die.

I am the least sentimental person, but for my daughters and I, being with my husband when he died (at home) was enormously helpful, emotionally. Not to mention the days leading up to his death, when he was conscious and we were all able to be loving and present, supporting him and each other. I can't imagine being deprived of that because of covid.

Not every death is as good a death, but to say that the previous poster was spouting sentimental nonsense is very unfair.

Moonjelly, that's how a lot of stroke victims die anyway. Of boring, bog standard pneumonia.

Being present when someone dies can hugely help the grieving process.

I'm kind of your sister, and I think you have a right to say something, but not to insist. I am from the US and was going to try to go there to see my parents over the summer. They are 80 and 78 and in good health. I haven't seen them since last December and really miss them, and they really miss me and my kids. My mild-mannered brother freaked out though, and called me to shout at me. I had never heard him raise his voice before, in 48 years, and we have always had a very good relationship.

After long talks all around my mom and I decided it would be better if we didn't visit this year. This was a very upsetting decision to make - if something happens to my parents anyway and my kids and I missed our last summer with them I'll be heartbroken. And I really miss them. Plus my parents are entirely compos mentis, extremely well-informed, rational people, and I hated the idea of treating them like children.

But in the end I had to conclude that my brother had a right to a say in the matter as it would affect him equally if something happened to my parents. They are his parents and his children's grandparents too. I do not believe he had a right to a veto, but he had a right to voice in the matter. Plus I felt that if we visited and something happened he would never forgive me, and my family would fall apart. So I caved, and although I can't say I was happy to forgo my trip I am not holding it against my brother. He obviously felt very strongly about this and was very upset, and is a super risk-averse person. (He and his wife have kept their children home from school even though their schools are open again, and they don't leave the house apart from a weekly grocery shop and walking their dog.) I ultimately don't want to upset my little brother.

So I guess what I'm saying is I think you can talk to your parents and your sister about this without stepping over the line. They are your parents too, and you obviously love them. Just ask if you can talk about it and say you are worried because cases are rising in your area. If you approach it nicely I'm sure your sister will be ok.

No-one can speak for anyone else when it comes to a being with a loved one when they die.

I am the least sentimental person, but for my daughters and I, being with my husband when he died (at home) was enormously helpful, emotionally. Not to mention the days leading up to his death, when he was conscious and we were all able to be loving and present, supporting him and each other. I can't imagine being deprived of that because of covid.

Not every death is as good a death, but to say that the previous poster was spouting sentimental nonsense is very unfair.
I was being a bit harsh. Every death is different and it was great that you could be with your DH in his last days.
None of this Covid business is fair. People are having to make judgements all the time. I know that if my DF was still alive at 92 at this time and no one visited he would rather have been dead.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. Maybe, say to her, limit her visits to once a week, then your parents still get to see her, but limit the risks. My parents, had to put there foot down to my sisters ex husband. Who was having his kids, in the school holidays, but was working at the same time, so wanted to drop the 3 kids off with my mum, whilst he was working. She really wanted to see them, as she hadn't seen them or talked mum, in lock down, however. There dad, likes to take them out a lot, my mum had to say no, as she said, if he took them, to a lot of places. They could be exposed to the virus, in all these places and she did not want to risk it. As a lot of the times, before covid, when my sister kids come round, my parents end up with a cold, or stomach bugs etc. Mum is nearly 70 and my dad has had cancer, so they d want to get covid too. He got a huff on, but why say you can have the kids, when you don't have the time off work. Some people, just don't take things seriously. If she gets annoyed, just say, if she only visits once a week, it gives all the kids chance to visit. Good luck.

It's their choice not yours and the risk levels you describe are ludicrous- as long as everyone is washing hands it will be fine.

@wizzbangfizz

It's their choice not yours and the risk levels you describe are ludicrous- as long as everyone is washing hands it will be fine.

With an infectious disease that is primarily caught by breathing air breathed out by infected lungs?

Haven’t read the thread sorry, but my DSisters asked me to stop seeing my parents. It was something I was thinking anyway (they provided one day a week childcare), so I wasn’t offended and we had a general discussion around it. As they don’t practically need our help anyway we all decided to for a while not see them and distance, as there are cases at school and while I’m boring as all hell, the kids pose a risk.

Problem is our parents are grown adults with their own minds, mum is getting really down and desperately wants to hug the kids and have a life. Dad is being very Yorkshire (he’s already had CV) and keeps sneaking in any chance he can to get close to them!! I.e. doing my garden and tempting them out for a hug!

Ultimately they are adults that can make their own risks, as my mum said they are a bit pissed off we made a choice for them, and she’d rather actually live her life than live this way forever on a half life.

I find that some people are really selfish. Young people thinking that going on the piss, having fun and shagging is fine because it won't hurt them, older people thinking that they'd rather die than miss out on life. None of these people are thinking about the risk to those vulnerable to Covid (we aren't all over 80 btw!) who may not be able to get the best treatment because the intensive care beds have been taken up by the "I'd rather take my chances than...." brigade. They are also not thinking about the NHS staff, the care staff, those working in hospitality or retail who don't have the choice. No wonder we have a Tory government with this I'm all right Jack attitude!