... to ask my sister to stop seeing our parents?

[PluralPatty]

I’m ready to get flamed for this but I genuinely don’t know what to do. Namechanged as my other posts are too outing.

DSis is in her fifties, good health, works full time in a school, goes to the gym and eats and drinks out regularly. Visits the supermarket daily, salons, takes public transport for leisure purposes, has travelled about the country and generally carries on as pre-Covid, says she’s not really at risk, which is true. Her DH same and she has 4 DCs of varying ages between 15 and 24 who, as most younger people, are also doing stuff socially as well as being at work/school. All good, no problem with this at all.

However, she goes round to our parents’ place several times a week, maybe more. They’re both in their 80s, dad is frail after a series of strokes but considering everything, they do ok. DSis takes them groceries and other things, sometimes takes them out to cafes or the cinema etc, the usual stuff, only we’re not in usual times, are we?

My problem here is that I think she is unnecessarily exposing our parents to Covid and I think she should stop seeing them, or at least cut down a lot. There are 4 of us siblings and one lives abroad and has not been able to visit since Covid but of those who live locally, we all pull our weight equally with the parents. I’m lucky enough to be able to work from home and have decided not to return to the gym and haven’t been socialsing really, DB the same. We are both much better placed to be making sure our parents have everything they need, yet DSis cannot seem to see this and clearly cannot see the risk to our parents here.

Cases are growing round here and I am seriously worried about DSis passing on Covid to my frail parents. AIBU?

@Wolke

We'd been keeping away from my father until this week when he broke down and said he felt he might as well be dead as life wasn't worth living. He understands that in his 80s he's at high risk, and as I'm a teacher there's likely to be lots of exposure but he'd rather have hugs from his grandchildren and hot meals with us than eat on his own and do video calls. My brother (who lives away) has agreed that dad's emotional needs at this point outweigh the risk. I feel very torn but at the end of the day this isn't going away.

So you're both making decisions for a fully grown adult, who managed to work and bring up a family and live his life?

These posts make me angry. I'm in my 60s, so luckily my children haven't started making decisions on my behalf. And whilst I've still got my marbles they'd better not try.

I think you are absolutely right to be concerned about your parents. No-one knows what it's going to be like to have Covid as an elderly person until they have it and they may well regret the contact then. I would maybe chat to your sister about it and say how worried you are. My mum has been shielding since March and we still only sit in her garden or go for walks outside! This is definitely her choice though. Don't let anyone guilt-trip you for being worried about your own parents' well-being! YOU sound lovely! x

@Emeraldshamrock

Reducing visits will definitely reduce the risk. There is no need for several visits a week. You and your sister sound really kind to your parents I'd chat with her start from a kind but worried POV. I seem to be the only with a yanbu I'm biased as I lost my DM to it in April.

I'm really sorry for your loss.

But the number of visits should be a joint decision. Not one that's imposed on the parents.

These posts make me angry. I'm in my 60s, so luckily my children haven't started making decisions on my behalf. And whilst I've still got my marbles they'd better not try

This x 1000. And if I’d lost my marbles, even more reason to hope and pray I caught Covid.

Also, your parents clearly don't need to see your sister given that they have other children willing to deliver shopping and help them.

My DH's parents, who are 15 years younger than yours, have made it very clear that they aren't keen to see any of their children at present. This without creating any hard feelings. I think you have to assume that your parents would express this directly if they wanted to.

@hopsalong

Agree that YBU, though can understand your worries.

Your sister might already have had covid and be less susceptible to passing it on. Your parents might already have had it without noticing! Admittedly this is unlikely but predicting how infections happen with this disease is very difficult. Even though your sister is, by your description, more exposed to multiple contacts, there's every chance that the person to pass it on will be you or your brother. How would you feel if that happened and you'd prevented her from seeing them?

I know people who work in central London hospitals who have never had the virus (either by symptoms, PCR test, or antibody test) and yet have a friend who lives in rural Somerset who somehow managed to pick it up despite leading a very quiet life. Any of us could come into contact with the virus. At their age, your parents may need other medical care that causes them to be exposed.

There's also every chance that if they do get it they'll both be fine. The survival rate even in the very oldest people is still more than 85%. (Think how optimistic you'd be if one of them was diagnosed with cancer and given that prognosis.) I have no evidence for this, but I'm sure that if they're happy, getting out, eating well etc they're much more likely to be in the majority who survive it. If they even get it in the first place, which they probably won't.

Can you focus on spending as much high quality time with them yourself as possible? I wonder if I detect an undertow of concern that they have more fun with your sister than with their other children!

They might well have more fun with my sister, who knows? I hope they do in many ways. There’s no sibling rivalry here, I’m not jealous of her or anything like that. I do think that maybe my sister is doing so much socially and travelling to show everything is ‘normal’ and that the risk is minimal and she has dragged my parents into this by visiting more than usual and doing more stuff with them.

You don't do anything for your parents and resent your Sister doing what you don't do.

My other Dsis abroad hasn’t come back because she doesn’t want to bring Covid to our parents and it’s tearing her apart

Can they not do a test before going to see your parents OP?

Your first post OP seemed exaggerated. Your. DS works full time yet she shops daily and various other things.

What is this really about OP? Are you anxious and would like to visit your parents more but are you worried from your own safety? If you have been WFM... you have been slightly wrapped up in a bubble compared to others who have had to travel to work.

Over 70s were not told to shield as a blanket group.
Shielding was a relatively small group with specific medical diagnoses putting them at extremely high risk.

@HopelesslydevotedtoGu

Over 70s were not told to shield as a blanket group. Shielding was a relatively small group with specific medical diagnoses putting them at extremely high risk.

Apologies for getting that wrong. I know there was some obsfucation by Matt Hancock about “not all over-70s but I genuinely thought at one point all over-70s were meant to be staying at home.

I can see all points of view and I certainly don’t want to tell them what to do. I just don’t want my parents to die prematurely.

You say your parents are in their '80s. Our parents are too. whether we like it or not, they are towards the end of their life.
Many older people feel that they would rather live their last few years well, see friends and family and live each day as if it were their last.
One lady I know said that whilst she is still able to go out and see people or have visitors, she wants to do so. She is not yet imprisoned in her own home due to illness and wants to make the most of her time left. however short.

Dear God. "They are 80, so clearly ready to die, they d much prefer COVID than not going to a cafe".....

Ageism!!!!

Also your sister is being remarkably selfish. She WILL feel it if she gives them COVID and they die isolated from their loved ones.

Of course you shpuld say smt. Perhaps they just havent really connected the dots.

If she wasnt being selfish, she could go and be outside the house, bring groceries, check they are ok, ring.... Etc etc.

@Lillysnotroses

My other Dsis abroad hasn’t come back because she doesn’t want to bring Covid to our parents and it’s tearing her apart

Can they not do a test before going to see your parents OP?

Your first post OP seemed exaggerated. Your. DS works full time yet she shops daily and various other things.

What is this really about OP? Are you anxious and would like to visit your parents more but are you worried from your own safety? If you have been WFM... you have been slightly wrapped up in a bubble compared to others who have had to travel to work.

She would be afraid of catching en route and also she cannot quarantine for 14 days upon arrival in the UK, spend time here then go back home and quarantine there too.

I don’t think there is anything that else going on here, even something I might not be fully conscious of. Dsis is a very busy person and manages to fit a lot in, always has done. She has a 5 minute commute so is not travelling a long way every day. She goes shopping most days because she likes it, always gadded about (for want of a better phrase) because she isn’t someone who likes to spend a lot of time at home. As I say, not doing anything different from usual.

I’m not particularly worried for my own safety. I’m in my forties, no underlying conditions. I’m much happier being at home doing not much than my sister is, though, so it hasn’t been much a wrench to slow things down a bit.

@BeardyButton

Dear God. "They are 80, so clearly ready to die, they d much prefer COVID than not going to a cafe".....

Ageism!!!!

Also your sister is being remarkably selfish. She WILL feel it if she gives them COVID and they die isolated from their loved ones.

Of course you shpuld say smt. Perhaps they just havent really connected the dots.

If she wasnt being selfish, she could go and be outside the house, bring groceries, check they are ok, ring.... Etc etc.

It’s not ageism. It’s realism. The older you get, the less you want to live for ever.

Also... It's not JUST what they want. Thats the whole bloody point. Even if some 80 yr olds prioritise going to cafes over not dying of COVID alone, some may not.

Those of us who want to avoid getting COVID (inc the 80 yr olds) NEED people to start thinking collectively. Thinking about the common good, rather than cafes and parties. But it doesn't look like that will happen.

Whatever about COVID, God help us with the climate crisis.... We cant even act for the common good with a clear, obvious enemy like COVID. No way are the same people who refuse to wear masks and bang on about cafes going to do whats necessary to avoid that.

I completely understand how you feel. Also, dying from Covid at any age must be absolutely awful. Can you tell her to wear a mask when she visits them? Does she know of your concerns? Perhaps she is just a little bit blasé because she works in a school-I’ve seen the majority of teachers in my school behave in similar ways as your ds & I think it’s to do with having to carry on as ‘normal’ as possible.

@BeardyButton

Also... It's not JUST what they want. Thats the whole bloody point. Even if some 80 yr olds prioritise going to cafes over not dying of COVID alone, some may not.

Those of us who want to avoid getting COVID (inc the 80 yr olds) NEED people to start thinking collectively. Thinking about the common good, rather than cafes and parties. But it doesn't look like that will happen.

Whatever about COVID, God help us with the climate crisis.... We cant even act for the common good with a clear, obvious enemy like COVID. No way are the same people who refuse to wear masks and bang on about cafes going to do whats necessary to avoid that.

It's often not that easy to identify the common good.

So you'd rather they were lonely?

IMO YABU. Your parents are nearing the end of their life. They may (like my mum) prioritise the quality of their remaining time on earth over the length of it.

I’ve been scrupulous over obeying the lockdown rules.I stayed home for 3 months. On the rare occasions I go out nowadays I wear masks, maintain distance, I handwash and sanitise regularly etc. I haven’t seen my 90 yo FIL since it started. My visits to my slightly younger mum have been infrequent and very distanced. But my mum is sad and lonely and fed up. I’ve decided I that from now on I will do what she wants I’ll see her more often and hug her when I see her. She’s going to die relatively soon anyway. I’d rather she didn’t die feeling lonely and unloved.

There’s a Pogues song that contains the line “I never knew there were worse things than dying’ and that’s run through my head so often as I’ve dropped food shops at Mums house with a shouted conversation from 6 feet away and then left her on her own for another few days. It’s inhuman and I’m not doing it anymore.

Like others I think it's your parents choice.
You cannot be sure that just because your sister socalises that 1 she will get it, 2 infect your parents and 3 that it will cause their premature demise.
You could easily catch it somewhere unexpectedly, no one can be certain.

Just wanted to say: this stuff about not wanting parents to die of Covid alone strikes me as a bit naive. I’ve sat with several elderly relatives in their last days & hours, in wards, at home, and in care. Death for the over 80s often comes from flu and other respiratory infections. It is (in my experience) always very hard. Often painful, long drawn out & very distressing (unless medical staff are kind enough to give good pain relief & deal with thirst which is not always the case).

My experience is that, sadly, in the very last hours the dying do not know you are with them. They have moved away & are in a different place, while still struggling to breathe. The time spent with them while healthy- laughing, talking, being together - is far more significant and precious than the last hours at the death bed, when they have little if any awareness.

In this sense Covid is no different from any other respiratory illness. To die from it is hard. Death is hard. For all of us, and for all the elderly. In the end, we all die alone. That’s just a brutal fact.

OP, I wonder from you reference to your parents dying ‘prematurely’ if you are in denial about their advanced ages & about what their future holds for them, & about the likelihood of their dying from a respiratory illness even without Covid. Perhaps they have a better grasp of that than you do about what death is, and this is feeding into their decision making. Please let them make their own decisions, whatever those are.

YABVU. If my sibling who was lucky enough to WFH tried to stop me seeing our parents I would hit the fucking roof.
I’m not seeing them indoors and haven’t seen them for longer than ten minutes in weeks but even if I wasn’t. Christ.

Just let your parents make their own decision! Who are you to ban them from seeing anyone?

I don’t think you are being at all unreasonable. If I were you I would feel exactly the same. You need to have a talk with your DSis explaining how she is putting your parents at risk of getting the virus. Your parents may not be aware of how much she is socialising as well as her DH and DC.
I’m sure they don’t want to catch Covid as at their age and with other health issues it could be very serious for them. You will need to be firm with your DSis as she has obviously not thought this through properly.

By ‘prematurely’ I meant before the time they would without Covid. I have no illusions my dad is going to live a lot longer. My mum is in good health for her age but she is her age.

I don’t really want to stop my sister from seeing them, I’ve already admitted I framed the first post wrongly. But I don’t see the harm in maybe doing a bit less right now, rather than carrying on as normal, almost as if to prove anyone else wrong.