... to ask my sister to stop seeing our parents?

[PluralPatty]

I’m ready to get flamed for this but I genuinely don’t know what to do. Namechanged as my other posts are too outing.

DSis is in her fifties, good health, works full time in a school, goes to the gym and eats and drinks out regularly. Visits the supermarket daily, salons, takes public transport for leisure purposes, has travelled about the country and generally carries on as pre-Covid, says she’s not really at risk, which is true. Her DH same and she has 4 DCs of varying ages between 15 and 24 who, as most younger people, are also doing stuff socially as well as being at work/school. All good, no problem with this at all.

However, she goes round to our parents’ place several times a week, maybe more. They’re both in their 80s, dad is frail after a series of strokes but considering everything, they do ok. DSis takes them groceries and other things, sometimes takes them out to cafes or the cinema etc, the usual stuff, only we’re not in usual times, are we?

My problem here is that I think she is unnecessarily exposing our parents to Covid and I think she should stop seeing them, or at least cut down a lot. There are 4 of us siblings and one lives abroad and has not been able to visit since Covid but of those who live locally, we all pull our weight equally with the parents. I’m lucky enough to be able to work from home and have decided not to return to the gym and haven’t been socialsing really, DB the same. We are both much better placed to be making sure our parents have everything they need, yet DSis cannot seem to see this and clearly cannot see the risk to our parents here.

Cases are growing round here and I am seriously worried about DSis passing on Covid to my frail parents. AIBU?

@VinylDetective

It’s not well said at all. It’s patronising infantilism.

100% agree. The OP's parents are grown adults, not 5 year olds.

There are a lot of posters here who have no imagination or empathy at all. Seriously, do you want to get to old age and be treated as if you are a child? Trust me, you won't.

@JKRowlingIsMyQueen, yes but you can choose whether you expose yourself to Covid or not. They don’t live in the UK, but in a country where not seeing elderly relatives is seen as sensible right now.

I’d gently raise it with your parents, and support them if they want to ask her to reduce contact with them. If they don’t want to do that, it’s their decision.

We have similar concerns in my family OP. My parents don't want to upset my sibling by pointing out she and her kids massively multiply my shielding parents' risk.

I can understand your concern. My in laws are in a v similar position. Sil and family have been seeing them constantly since lockdown began, multiple times a week, taking no precautions. They all have a lot of contacts and are in and out of Pil's house. Dh was v upset about this for a long time and fell out with Sil sbout it.

However, he's feels now he can't control it and they are accepting the risk. Pil both have health problems and probably don't have many good years left. Their family keeps them happy, they don't have any real interests in life, so seeing family is everything.

I agree with you OP.
Your parents may be in their eighties, but they could live another ten years, why risk Covid killing them before their time ? Also as your Dad is frail, has your sister taken on board that if he was seriously ill in hospital he might not be allowed any visitors and could die alone ?
My MIl is in her eighties, very fit and well, but obviously higher risk because of her age. We are being extremely careful, Sil is not. Her husband works in a school, and they live in a city, yet they visit MIl.

I really hate the attitude on here that the over 75s are about to die anyway so why bother. Many people live into their nineties now.

You sound jealous of your sister's life. Why don't you get back out there a bit? So long as you are all careful around your parents wash your hands, no physical contact then I can't see what the harm is.

@taraRoo

You sound jealous of your sister's life. Why don't you get back out there a bit? So long as you are all careful around your parents wash your hands, no physical contact then I can't see what the harm is.

I’m not jealous of my sister’s life, this is not what this is about at all. I’m in no hurry to “get back out there” and it’s no hardship for me to slow things down a little at the moment.

Even if they are happy to take that risk on the basis that they would rather be enjoying themselves, I seriously question whether anyone, given the choice, would choose to die of Covid. It's pretty clear that it's a fairly horrible death, generally made worse by being stuck in hospital on your own without being able to see the people you love. People who believe that OP's parents or anyone else would really prefer that are being very blasé about the realities of the disease.

I'd sooner die of Covid than a long slow death by dementia or die after being severely disabled by a stroke. I've seen worse deaths working in care, palliative care and caring for family members. The long lingering declines were by far the worst. Respiratory deaths don't tend to be pretty but not everyone suffers, and they can be very peaceful deaths. My Grandmother died of pneumonia after breaking her hip and her death was very peaceful. She knew nothing of it and I'd choose it 100 times over what dementia was doing to her, even if it hadn't been quite so peaceful. Likewise I've seen others go peacefully with pneumonia, especially with good palliative care.

That's not to mention that it isn't an automatic death sentence for the over 80s either. An 82 year old relative who had multiple vulnerabilities and health issues felt weaker than normal for about ten days but had no other symptoms. His 84 year old girlfriend tested positive(they reside in a nursing home so were tested) but she had no symptoms.

I'm not suggesting that anyone goes and jumps in front of a bus but I'm intrigued by the idea that dying of Covid in your 80s is dying prematurely. But presumably dying of a heart attack, pneumonia, stroke, flu etc isn't a premature death? What exactly constitutes an "acceptable death"?

YANBU.

You should tell your parents about the lifestyle your Dsis is enjoying so that they can make up their own minds about continued frequent contact with her.

I think she is being incredibly selfish. They are not props in her 'everything is normal' narrative.

OP I’m sorry for your situation, it’s a very stressful situation to be in and I understand your concern .
It’s one of these scenarios where there are many valid points of view , stay safe , have visitors and don’t be alone , stay in as a precaution, go out to enjoy the life you have left and protect your mental health etc etc etc

I have elderly parents too and they are happy to accept having no visitors and make do with a visit in the garden at a distance as we deliver groceries etc .
We are in Scotland so restrictions are tighter . I’m grateful for their approach to it as it’s less risk and therefore less worry for us all .

Take care and I really hope you all stay well through to the end of this x

What exactly constitutes an "acceptable death"?

Maybe one in which your loved ones can gather and spend your last moments with you, holding your hand, saying your last words?

People often get to do this when an elderly relative dies from pneumonia or from complications of a stroke. It's an immense comfort to everyone. Whereas death from covid almost always takes place in a sterile setting with no loved ones allowed near.

I am horrified to read all the posts basically writing off these elderly parents.

I don't think asking your sister not to see her own parents is at all ok. They are her parents as much as yours. I think this could cause a serious, long term, fall out.

I think you could ask her if parents know the extent of her socialising, if you feel her answer doesn't satisfy you then you could fill your parents in.

If your parents are of sound mind and know the details of your sister's day to day actions I don't feel there's more to do. I get that you're worrief but I think in reality your sister sounds like she is living normally, not recklessly, and if socialising she will be following social distancing rules. In my opinion the main risks come from.work and school anyway.

I really hate the attitude on here that the over 75s are about to die anyway so why bother. Many people live into their nineties now.

Well yes, which is all well and good if you have a reasonable quality of life and all of your faculties, but even if you have both you have to die of something at some point. I can't imagine feeling cheated if I died in my 80s or 90s. I've been one of the lucky ones if I live that long. That's not a premature death.

If I was your parents I’d rather live a short and happy life than a long and miserable one. Your sister sounds great. You should be pleased about all she’s doing for them, not doing her down.

We can't put our lives on hold because of covid. I'm at a stage where I accept that there is a risk. Ill socially distance, wash my hands wear a mask but I will not stop living my lift. I could get knocked down tomorrow and die. I'd rather have quality of life over quantity.

At your parents age, I'd feel the same way.

Glad other posters have made you see sense.

I'm with others... it's their decision.
You may not like it but it's not your decision.
If I were in my eighties . I'd welcome every single visit from my family. As does my own frail eighty something mum.

@WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo

If I'd got to their ages I'd rather my final months were spent spending time with my DD and going out to have fun than sitting at home waiting for death to happen.

YABU. Leave them be.

Final months? Wtf? They could live another 20 years!

Maybe one in which your loved ones can gather and spend your last moments with you, holding your hand, saying your last words?

Only one of my many deceased relatives had an "acceptable death" by that count then. Most died young(from 17 to 58) suddenly and alone, of various causes. Many people die alone, that's not unique to Covid. And many are in no position to say any last words in my experience, at least nothing meaningful considering their often unconscious state.

Yes it's sad that family can't be with them, and I think allowances should be made, though that's another thread. But you could drive yourself crazy doing everything to avoid Covid, and go without seeing your family, only for death to arrive in another form. It's a matter of when not if.

@lboogy

We can't put our lives on hold because of covid. I'm at a stage where I accept that there is a risk. Ill socially distance, wash my hands wear a mask but I will not stop living my lift. I could get knocked down tomorrow and die. I'd rather have quality of life over quantity.

At your parents age, I'd feel the same way.

Glad other posters have made you see sense.

But we can put some parts of our life on hold for Covid if we have vulnerable loved ones that we want to spend time with. There is literally no need, for example, to go on a city break to Liverpool with your mate and then come back and spend time with your elderly parents, none whatsoever.

A PP articulated it better than I could- she is using our parents in her “everything is normal” narrative and I think that’s selfish. I don’t think she is doing it consciously, btw, but the results are the same

YANBU OP.
Have a chat with your sister. How would she actually feel if she passed on Covid to your parents who died as a result?
She can still see them, of course, but she should be taking a few more precautions in her everyday life - of course she should. So should we all be at the moment (unfortunately). As you've recognised, she's the one that needs to make some sacrifices here, not your parents, and I don't understand why people are suggesting you think otherwise.

I understand your concerns OP. It wouldn’t be reasonable to ask your sis not to see them but you’ve admitted that, and it sounds more like you posted to get some perspective and express your worries.

I Agree with others that it’s your parents’ decision and that we shouldn’t be infantilising the elderly. That said, it’s hard not to worry about older parents especially when it appears others interacting with them are not being particularly ‘careful’ covid wise in their own lives.

All you can do is hope your sister is taking the necessary precautions with masks, distancing etc and maybe remind them/ her about things like keeping places ventilated as much as possible.

At the end of the day everyone has to decide for themselves how much personal risk they’re willing to accept. That doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to worry

YANBU and the pp who said your DSIS is doing nothing wrong ... well, that depends where she lives. In our area, your DSIS would be breaking rules.
I empathise because we have a similar situation in our family. A DSIS blithely ignoring all guidance and constantly popping in to elderly parents. DM isn't happy about it but DSIS knows DM won't turn her away on the doorstep. People who are selfish continue to be so during Covid. It's just now there selfishness very obviously puts other people at risk too.

It should be your parents choice.

I just don’t want my parents to die prematurely.
Dying in your 80s when already frail is not dying prematurely. Your parents may feel they would rather see family regardless of risk.

Nah they make up their own choices