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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this pandemic has provided deep insight into people's character?

320 replies

rosesbloom · 08/10/2020 10:37

I have found it quite illuminating seeing people's reactions. Friends and family members I have known for years have surprised me. It is like this situation has acted like a catalyst to reveal people's true nature, values and character.

A friend I had known for years and thought was a kind and empathetic person said the vulnerable just need to accept that they will die if they catch it and everything needs to carry on as normal. I have an underlying health condition she doesn't know about. I just sat there in stunned silence.

It has even shown me things about myself I didn't realise. It has shown me how anxious I am about my health, usually all those worries are internal and I keep them to myself but they have had to be brought out into the light when I explain to friends/family why I don't feel comfortable going for a meal in a restaurant at the moment despite it being "allowed" and "COVID-19 secure". Even though I know I engage in risky behaviours all the time like driving a car, crossing a road, etc it is like I have a blind spot with accurately assessing COVID risks.

Have any of you had any surprising revelations from people?

OP posts:
Holyrivolli · 08/10/2020 13:03

@Calabasa. Well stay at home then. Fuck everyone who works in those industries and their families. Doesn’t bother you if they all lose their homes and livelihoods. Is that what you’re really saying? Just as long as you’re in your home with your comforts and your shopping being delivered?

SoUtterlyGroundDown · 08/10/2020 13:05

@MsSafina

Things appear to be polarised between those who want everyone to be under house arrest and the anti vaxxer, anti maskers, or those who want to run around London rioting. Some common sense is needed. Unless you have a serious health condition or are very aged, is it absolutely necessary for everyone else to remain confined within their homes if they are taking reasonable care? Similarly, is it essential to go out on a demo in the middle of a pandemic?
They appear that way on Mumsnet, yes. In real life everyone I know is fed up of the rules but following them anyway, accepting some level of restrictions for the greater good, accepting that everyone’s individual circumstances are different and having empathy for that, and not calling everyone selfish for having different views to them.
TheDailyCarbuncle · 08/10/2020 13:06

It hasn't provided insight as such, just confirmed what I've thought for a very long time, which is:

People, even scientists, really really don't understand data
The lack of understanding can be used to convince anyone of anything
If the thing a person is being convinced of presses their fear button, they'll believe it and it'll be nigh on impossible to make them see things any differently, no matter how much the original data is debunked/new data is available
That fear causes fatal tunnel vision that people genuinely can't overcome
That fear makes people go so far as to believe it's beneficial and right to abandon people, especially older people to suffer isolation, despair and in many cases death.
That people are fixated on the future to the extent that they will ignore what's happening right in front of their face to focus on something that someone told them might happen, as long as the thing that might happen seems more scary.

Once the balance of fear tips in the other direction and the effects of lockdown become clear, people will start to wake up and claim they didn't see it coming, like they always always always fucking do.

The main thing I've had cemented is that people don't learn. They just don't. They just make the same mistakes in different forms over and over and over.

LaVitaPuoEsserePiuBella · 08/10/2020 13:08

@SomewhereEast

Its been an education in the power of fear, basically. People will agree to literally anything in order to feel 'safe'.
All those slogans and phrases created during this pandemic - Stay Safe /Covid-secure etc - create a false illusion. What is it, to feel "safe"? Are we ever "safe"? Who determines what "safe" is? Etc etc...
BeNiceLikeIRL · 08/10/2020 13:09

Bear in mind 2 entities benefit from all the 'divide and rule': the virus and the government.
Plus hope it isn't too cynical, but I increasingly believe that some of the more prolific and vitriolic posters are being paid in some capacity, either as freelance PR or as part of lobbyist groups.
The DailyFail started posting articles based on threads from MN, then opinion-monitors started looking, and then opinion-influencers turned up.
[Picks up tin hat and leaves thread].

BrazenlyDefying · 08/10/2020 13:09

Totally agree. I've been pretty shocked about a few things.

How downright NASTY and horrible people can be, and their gleeful relish at the idea of shopping people the police for any perceived infringement of their roolz.

That in general, people are utterly shit at interpreting graphs, doing percentages, working out probability, and realising that scary words such as "tripled" or "up 100%" really depends on where you're starting from.

SoUtterlyGroundDown · 08/10/2020 13:12

All those slogans and phrases created during this pandemic - Stay Safe /Covid-secure etc - create a false illusion. What is it, to feel "safe"? Are we ever "safe"? Who determines what "safe" is? Etc etc...

And also that ‘safe’ is a binary thing. Wearing masks to ‘be safe’, as though they categorically prevent all infection. Or not going anywhere where someone isn’t wearing a mask as it’s ‘unsafe’... as though being in the company of someone without a mask on means that a) they definitely have the virus and b) they will definitely pass it on.
Or the idea that we can ever be truly ‘safe’ from anything. That life before Covid was safe and life after Covid isn’t.

Treesofwood · 08/10/2020 13:12

BenicelikeIRL I am sure there are people paid to post on here. Nice work if you can get it.

malificent7 · 08/10/2020 13:13

Meh...humans are not as resiliant as we used to be.

kitschplease · 08/10/2020 13:16

yep - the self-appointed covid police, and those who lack any critical thinking have shown themselves for who they are.

Busybrain2020 · 08/10/2020 13:17

I am also shocked that some people think it is entirely reasonable to pay other people to take risks to their lives that they are not willing to take to their own life. (eg online shopping) Almost like the creation of a servant class.

This is a silly comment - one person delivering shopping safely to the doorsteps of 20 people a day is much safer for society as a whole than all 20 of those people going and mixing in public. We also pay police officers and doctors/nurses and fire fighters and roofers and drivers etc to take risks we don't want to or can't take ourselves.

Oaktree55 · 08/10/2020 13:18

Definitely paid posters/lobbyist. Can think of better jobs personally 🤣

BlusteryShowers · 08/10/2020 13:18

The turning against eachother has been really sad.

I feel very sorry for the owners of independent bars and restaurants when it seems to be fashionable at the moment to criticise anyone who chooses to give them custom.

There are some fantastic independent places where I live and they drive most of the footfall to the extremely generic and boring selection of high street shops in the town centre. Without these hospitality places, I really think people will largely stop bothering with our town centre and it'll go altogether.

I don't think it's wrong to express concern for these businesses and to try and use them where possible, and people shouldn't be slagged off for doing so.

Stripesnomore · 08/10/2020 13:20

At no point in the pandemic have most people in the vulnerable group been told they can stay at home. They still have to go to work, and have done from the very beginning.

Obviously most of the population are not really bothered about the vulnerable or there would have been a huge backlash about this.

It’s great for all the people working from home to ‘protect the vulnerable’ but I still have to go into work and deal with the public, despite being in the vulnerable group.

ahhanotheryear · 08/10/2020 13:21

@TheDailyCarbuncle

It hasn't provided insight as such, just confirmed what I've thought for a very long time, which is:

People, even scientists, really really don't understand data
The lack of understanding can be used to convince anyone of anything
If the thing a person is being convinced of presses their fear button, they'll believe it and it'll be nigh on impossible to make them see things any differently, no matter how much the original data is debunked/new data is available
That fear causes fatal tunnel vision that people genuinely can't overcome
That fear makes people go so far as to believe it's beneficial and right to abandon people, especially older people to suffer isolation, despair and in many cases death.
That people are fixated on the future to the extent that they will ignore what's happening right in front of their face to focus on something that someone told them might happen, as long as the thing that might happen seems more scary.

Once the balance of fear tips in the other direction and the effects of lockdown become clear, people will start to wake up and claim they didn't see it coming, like they always always always fucking do.

The main thing I've had cemented is that people don't learn. They just don't. They just make the same mistakes in different forms over and over and over.

You've hit the nail on the head. We never learn from history as a collective group, individuals yes sometimes do learn.

What makes me cross is we had the hard lockdown at the beginning, huge damage to the economy and still huge numbers of vulnerable old people died whose deaths could have been prevented.

SoUtterlyGroundDown · 08/10/2020 13:21

This is a silly comment - one person delivering shopping safely to the doorsteps of 20 people a day is much safer for society as a whole than all 20 of those people going and mixing in public. We also pay police officers and doctors/nurses and fire fighters and roofers and drivers etc to take risks we don't want to or can't take ourselves

Except a person choosing to become a police officer, or fire fighter, or roofer knows the risks involved before choosing that occupation. A supermarket food picker doesn’t.
The point is that people are crying for ‘strict lockdown’, not even acknowledging the fact that that isn’t possible if they want to remain fed (food delivered to them safely in their houses at their convenience), with functioning electricity and water supplies, and emergency services there if they need it.

username108 · 08/10/2020 13:22

I stopped caring about other people a long time ago- most people are selfish and self-absorbed, so I decided to be the same way. If someone's great aunt dies of Covid at 90, is that really such a tragic thing? They have lived 90 years ffs. Nobody is going to live forever.

Springersrock · 08/10/2020 13:22

How downright NASTY and horrible people can be, and their gleeful relish at the idea of shopping people the police for any perceived infringement of their roolz.

Same here. I’ve been quite shocked by just how nasty and in some instances aggressive people can be.

I was standing in the queue in Sainsbury’s a little while ago. Standing on the little floor marker, minding my own business when some woman absolutely let rip, started shouting that I should move, I was too close to her, did I want people to die, I was an idiot, jabbing her finger in my face, etc. She was the one who had stood behind me. If I moved forward, I’d be too close to the person in front. I’ve witnessed the same sort of thing happen all over.

Also, someone who I thought was a good friend - I confided in her how worried about my daughter’s mental health I was. We have horses and friend had been on and on at me about how I shouldn’t be going out twice a day to see to them. I explained how worried I was for my daughter and that visiting the yard was a life saver. Friend told me that my DD’s mental health was ‘collateral damage’ and that I was selfish. We weren’t doing anything wrong but her attitude shocked me. I haven’t spoken to her since as I can’t forget it.

waterproofed · 08/10/2020 13:22

There is no way this isn’t going to come out smug, but I don’t think I’ve been surprised by any of the reactions to the pandemic.

To me, all of the things I’ve seen and I’ve seen described here are perfectly natural responses to living under a huge burden of stress. I can’t say I experienced a sudden epiphany about human nature or any of my friends. I don’t judge myself for my responses (raging sugar addiction and a bad temper, mostly) and try not to judge others either.

Peace and love.

Serenity2020 · 08/10/2020 13:24

Yes. And in most cases, sadly, it hasn't surprised me. It's not the virus that scares me so much as the response to it and all of the things being done in the name of COVID-19.

The people I thought were kind are still kind. The people I thought were nasty curtain twitching little Nazis or Stasi recruits in the making are still nasty little Nazis or Stasi recruits in the making though many do it in the guise of being good, obedient little citizens (the Good Girls' Club syndrome, I call it. Or Boys.) And the people I thought would blindly follow whatever the BBC and the Daily Mail, or the Guardian and the New Statesman, tell them to think without checking out the evidence for themselves still do so.

It's also been interesting to see how the health professionals I know have handled it, which is generally with professionalism, kindness, and common sense. Some held back a little in the first wave as they knew that this (so-called) second wave would almost certainly have more of an impact, and they didn't want to go into it exhausted from the start. They'll be able to be of more use now, and help support or take over from those exhausted in that first rush.

They tend to be the more experienced ones, though. It's not that they didn't help at the start, they just didn't rush to be on that very first frontline. This applies to people I know who have nursed patients through Ebola and Dengue Fever, although not in this country, or have worked on ICU wards (in this country), so I kind of figure they know what they're on about when it comes to infection control and PPE and not overstretching yourself.

I also know a couple of nurses with an excellent knowledge of history (it's practically their hobby), including various recorded plagues all the way back to the plague of St Justinian. And pretty much everything they have said is likely to happen, based on those historical precedents, has happened.

For me the pandemic has also revealed the true nature of our governments (especially in the US and the UK) and those who support their policies no matter how much human suffering they cause. It has especially revealed, once and for all. the true nature of the slithery little subhuman creatures behind the acceptable masks of the likes of BJ. (And I suspect there are even more slithery things behind them.) They always had this reduction in freedoms and various other fates for the Proles planned, this has just accelerated it beyond their wildest wet dreams.

Like others here, I've also been beyond angry and upset at how many people think they're untouchable because until now they've always had security in jobs, and homes, and food. And those people are perfectly happy for others, that they regard as inferior, to suffer, and head towards destitution. And I do mean destitution.

It didn't have to be quite as bad as this, if only people hadn't enabled this bunch of Austerity loving monsters 10 years ago. The mental health repercussions of this thing are only just beginning, but the "I'm all right Jack brigade" won't give a monkey's fig, since initially it will only affect the poor or non-Oxbridge educated Caucasians, and what do they matter. Time to get rid of a few of them, they're a drain on society, anyway. Camps, did you say? What a splendid idea..

I've also been beyond incandescent to see the likes of Bezos get richer and richer and richer while his employees, in the early stages, didn't even have the most basic of surgical masks and are being run ragged. And I'm as hypocritical as anyone; while I try to use smaller companies, local wherever possible, sometimes we have to resort to Amazon. But how can that immense gap in wealth possibly be right, morally? (Rhetorical question. I just don't know what we can do about it, practically, as I certainly can't see him setting up a humanitarian fund to help with education and healthcare any time soon, or many of the others.)

If you look at it from a traditional occult/religious point of view though then there are two main forces that motivate humanity/most living creatures, when you come down to it: Love, and Fear. And right now, the rulers of the world are most definitely feeding on our Fear.

I sometimes can't help feeling the aforesaid subhuman creatures most definitely have more knowledge of the occult than is safe in such hands. I'm almost at the stage where I'm seriously considering trying out the technique in A Wrinkle in Time (the book, not the film, which I haven't seen). In the story, the main character can't love the evil force working through her brother, but she CAN stand there and love her brother.

So on that note, I'm going to go and see if I can find a cuddly BJ or a cuddly Orange Wotsit. Failing which, I might have to make them and keep them on my computer and tell them every day how much I really, really, really love them. Right before I smother them in a hug or give them to the cats to play with for practice.... ;)

rosesbloom · 08/10/2020 13:24

So many interesting points.

I guess because this is a shared experience we all fall somewhere on the spectrum of:

  • This virus is fake/mild, open everything up, the vulnerable need to accept they will succumb to this, I don't care about the mortality rate of this virus, life needs to carry on as normal even though letting the virus rip through the population will likely have terrible consequences as well, I don't care
  • I am terrified of catching COVID so I think everything should be fully locked down for months on end until there is a vaccine, I don't care about any other consequences of this (economic, mental health, education, etc), I need to feel safe and that is the most important factor to consider.

There is so much nastiness and I think a lot of that is because people try and polarise people into the two extremes of the spectrum rather than realising most people fall somewhere towards the middle.

For example, just because I mentioned I disagree with the idea that vulnerable people should accept that they will die from COVID and am a little nervous about sitting in a restaurant at the moment as cases are rising in my area, one reply to this thread wrote:

"And you think it’s kind to cause deaths through Loss of livelihood, domestic violence, cancer deaths due to non screening, child abuse? Yes, you are so kind and empathetic, OP!"

No where in the OP did I imply that. This kind of polarised thinking is fuelling such nastiness.

OP posts:
Treesofwood · 08/10/2020 13:24

Busybrain Can't take is different to don't want to take.
Your point about the online delivery is true to a point, but I don't think there's actually been many outbreaks based around supermarkets anyway, plus you are not factoring all the other people being paid minimum wage to do your shopping.

WolffromTheWest · 08/10/2020 13:25

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

The selfishness and the whinging over every little thing have been quite astonishing.
This. But not in my real life. Most people in RL have behaved exactly as I knew they would, but the foot stamping, demands on forums/social media and complete unwillingness to try to adapt even in minor ways and try make the best of it has really shocked me. I've found some of the whinges absolutely pathetic.
Kljnmw3459 · 08/10/2020 13:26

Not really, I already knew who would be an anxious mess, who would sail through the lockdown without many problems and who would oppose to any restrictions to civil liberties.

The only person that has surprised me is a friend who has gone full conspiracy theorist due to this. I hope it's temporary.

bibbitybobbitycats · 08/10/2020 13:27

How older people or those who consider themselves to be vulnerable are quite happy to expect the young and people who are working in industries which have been crushed due to lockdown restrictions to sacrifice their livelihoods and futures for something that doesn’t really affect them. With no end in sight

As an older person (i.e. over 50) with a vulnerable DH, I don't know anyone who is happy about any of this. It is a horrible situation for everyone and there are no easy answers.

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