To think this pandemic has provided deep insight into people's character?

[rosesbloom]

I have found it quite illuminating seeing people's reactions. Friends and family members I have known for years have surprised me. It is like this situation has acted like a catalyst to reveal people's true nature, values and character.

A friend I had known for years and thought was a kind and empathetic person said the vulnerable just need to accept that they will die if they catch it and everything needs to carry on as normal. I have an underlying health condition she doesn't know about. I just sat there in stunned silence.

It has even shown me things about myself I didn't realise. It has shown me how anxious I am about my health, usually all those worries are internal and I keep them to myself but they have had to be brought out into the light when I explain to friends/family why I don't feel comfortable going for a meal in a restaurant at the moment despite it being "allowed" and "COVID-19 secure". Even though I know I engage in risky behaviours all the time like driving a car, crossing a road, etc it is like I have a blind spot with accurately assessing COVID risks.

Have any of you had any surprising revelations from people?

Given that most of the very vulnerable to the virus have very good pensions and are at home all day anyway, I don't think it would cost stratospheric amounts to support the remaining vulnerable sections of society are of working age, it would certainly be cheaper than closing down the country!

The rest of us should take precautions and continue as before - we can't keep locking down the country.

Next week the infection rate will be through the roof, we are already at March levels now - so someone somewhere needs to make a decision. Do we follow Sweden and hold our nerve? Or do we close down again?

Given that most of the very vulnerable to the virus have very good pensions

Given the levels of pensioner poverty in the UK, and that the ECV are defined by co-morbidity not age, you are wrong to assume that a group of mixed ages (including children) are in receipt of a 'very good' pension.

@Friendsoftheearth

Given that most of the very vulnerable to the virus have very good pensions and are at home all day anyway, I don't think it would cost stratospheric amounts to support the remaining vulnerable sections of society are of working age, it would certainly be cheaper than closing down the country!

The rest of us should take precautions and continue as before - we can't keep locking down the country.

Next week the infection rate will be through the roof, we are already at March levels now - so someone somewhere needs to make a decision. Do we follow Sweden and hold our nerve? Or do we close down again?

Shielding is a luxury. It may be that the people you know who have shielded are well off but there are very many more who "should" have shielded but couldn't do so and pay the bills. A chronic health condition doesn't usually = affluent.

Do we follow Sweden and hold our nerve? Or do we close down again?

Not until our death rate also matches Sweden. They're middling for case numbers per 100,00 but low for deaths. Our death rate per 100,000 is currently 5x that of Sweden.

Not sure how the figures for those hospitalised or too ill to work compare. But I think the country could come to a halt if we loosened precautions on our current numbers. And that sort of collapse is the most damaging, and distressing, scenario

@Goosefoot

One of the things I've found interesting and a little worrying is around the discussion of deaths.

Lots of people seem to see a covid death as always weighing against any other consideration. Whatever we can do to stop them is good. Even if the people are older or have risk factors, we need to keep them perfectly safe at any cost that is not death.

But this forgets that death is actually never a totally avoidable end, everyone will die, and the old or very ill will generally die fairly soon.

Where I live until the last few weeks we still had people in care homes under lockdown, so for almost six months. These are places with a normal turnover of about 30% of residents, due to death. So a residence with 100people would have had something like 15 deaths over that time, without the chance to see loved ones. And most of those residents are looking at the situation knowing they cannot go out, they cannot see family, for the foreseeable future, and there is a real chance that will be for the rest of their lives.

So under those circumstances, how much weight do they give their own death, which is staring them in the face anyway. Vs being isolated in a medicalised environment.

A certain amount of the call to protect such people from infection at such a cost comes more from their younger children and other people, and I think it's worth asking how much of that is really about the quality of life of the elderly or frail relatives, and how much is about making the younger generation feel better about it all.

This is so true.

A chronic health condition doesn't usually = affluent

I'd say quite the opposite, if you look at the list. Especially because of the correlation between poverty and ill health

It's the people who haven't reassured their children through this that have shocked me. They've passed all their irrational paranoia onto their children, leaving them completely unable to understand or assess the risks associated with covid, therefore frightened and miserable.

It's certainly shown us who people really are, I'd agree with that... Sadly, in many cases.

Given that most of the very vulnerable to the virus have very good pensions and are at home all day anyway

Really what makes you think that

Yes. I've been txting friends now and then to see how they are doing. I'm always the one who texts first, and none of my friends have been the ones to text me first to ask how I'm doing. I do it because I care about them. I have started to wonder if they are that bothered about me though.
One friend didn't reply at all, to a FB messenger message that I sent her, even though I could see that she had seen it. I considered her a really good friend too. I get that some people have found things a lot more difficult than others, but we have all struggled to some degree.
A certain family member who behaved really sneaky recently, relaying something to another family member, who I hadn't then yet had chance to tell myself. This resulted in them thinking that I was keeping said info from them. This sneaky behaviour seems to be related to the fact that I said no to a family get together. I said no, because it would have been breaking the Covid restrictions, and I was not doing that. So this appears to have been somewhat of a annoyed fuelled retaliation on her part, which has really been an eye opener.

The most selfish behaviour I've seen is from the older generations. They benefited from rising property prices and pretty benign times whilst screwing up the environment and voting for Brexit and now they expect the young to squander their lives to protect them?
The young today have it a bit shit don't they? If I was elderly no way would I expect young people to make these sacrifices. I'd shield if necessary but nit expect this of a whole younger generation.

That's the selfishness right there

Well OP, I've learned that 'friendships' generally mean nothing of the sort, some people seem able to jettison them very easily and I'm referring to you in that number.

I think that people who were generally gregarious and willing to help out will insulate themselves and their own, as far as they can, from everybody else. I don't blame them for that. We have a shitty government in power and as PPs have said, it's brought out some really nasty views from so many people to make it all so much worse.

I don't really care, I spend less and less time on mumsnet though, the thought-processes from some are really disturbing and some people are positively gleeful at the restrictions being placed on others.

This is just another goady thread in my book, didn't need saying at all but you're in good company with all the other threads wanting to pigeonhole and define people's characters before writing them off...

Lockdown must be avoiding, I know it woukd mean people in vulnerable category isolating, but I fear the impact that lockdown has shown can be more far more dangerous.
Depression, suicide, starvation, poverty homelessness are all side effects of more Lockdown i fear, and far more dangerous

i think stirring up inter-generational strife based on lazy stereotyping and downright ageism is a seriously low point.

Most elderly people I know say that they'd rather restrictions were eased in order to allow younger people to live their lives. So lazy stereotypes about selfish older people are just that: lazy.

@FuckeryOmbudsman

i think stirring up inter-generational strife based on lazy stereotyping and downright ageism is a seriously low point.

Too right.

I am amazed at the amount of people I know working haven’t left their house since March.
They are wfh, they get their shopping delivered and think everyone else should be still living like this.

The lack of understanding that people work and the world has moved on seems to pass them by.

The reports on the news of crowds in the street after the pubs have thrown out are just a fraction of people who are not adhering to the lockdown.

At this stage I can’t see how they will ever leave their house again. I think it is verging on agoraphobia.

I know how Dp was after his 3 months shielding came to an end.
To get him out of the house it was a cross between tough love and him just not wanting to stay in for the rest of his life but he was scared to leave.
He did a few trips out in the car just to park up somewhere and see other people about before he actually got out of the car

Most of the older people I know are obediently staying at home and not going anywhere. The Grey Pound isn't being spent and the Grey Pound is what keeps hospitality, leisure sectors and tourism afloat where many young people are employed.

Let's just say, as an historian I feel I've seen first hand how "the Nazis got away with it". When studying people always used to ask in class/lectures "how could the population of Germany let the Nazis do what they did?" And we've now seen first hand how quickly people are ready to report their neighbours for minor infractions.

Personally, I've surprised myself in how un-anxious I am about it. I've always been quite nervous about my health (I have a chronic condition) and actually had worries about pandemic type situations. Now it's here I really couldn't GAF. I wear my mask, I sanitise and I keep my distance out of respect for others but I really just want to throw in the towel and bloody get on with my life.

I think those who have to go to work in areas with high cases probably take things in their stride more. I'm working every day with pretty much no ppe and lots of people who don't care about social distancing and masks, and I haven't died yet, so I'm not particularly anxious. If you're still working from home, having your shopping delivered and haven't ventured into so much as a coffee shop, it's probably pretty easy to imagine that you're in danger if you ease up and change your behaviour in any way.

It reminds me of all those social media posts back during lockdown: If there was a serial killer walking the streets, would you still go out?' Well, yes, I do.