To leave my cult-obsessed DP?

[Abbeywell79]

My first time in AIBU but I'm getting bugger-all response elsewhere so I've got my big-girl pants on!

Been with DP for 7 years, 2 toddlers, both knackered but we generally have a solid relationship. Same outlook on life (or used to), views on parenting etc.

When Covid struck, dp kept warning me about how we were going to be given a vaccine with a microchip and we were all going to be controlled etc etc.

We had a huge row about it, I said I didn't want to hear such nonsense and long story short, we agreed we wouldn't discuss it any more otherwise it was going to damage our relationship.

Since then, things have been fine on the surface. Day-to day life has resumed. However, because he hasn't had me to talk to about his worries, he's found a load of new buddies online and he is now a fully-fledged member of Qanon who spout all sorts including Satanism in Hollywood, child trafficking for organ harvesting to keep famous people looking good, lizard people in the royal family, 9/11 faked etc.

I only know this because I set up a fake account so I could follow his groups so I know what he is reading and sometimes what he posts within these groups. Otherwise I wouldn't have a clue as he appears to be the perfect partner/dad the rest of the time.

I can't see a way back from this. I always said I would give things until after the US election (when Trump will apparently save the world and 'all will be revealed') to see if it will improve but I think he is so far gone I've lost the man I fell in love with.

My options seem to be:

1. Stay with him. That way I get to keep an eye on the lunacy and ensure he's not trying to indoctrinate our children as they get older
2. Split up. We are about to move 200 miles away to be nearer my family and I was planning on staying with him until we did that then at least I have support. But then it would mean essentially kicking him out then will I lose my kids to him every other weekend? I don't want them travelling and then I won't be able to monitor what he's telling them
3. Keep it under review. DC aren't being affected by it yet so wait until they're older or until his mask starts to slip and he can't contain his 'secrets' any longer

All options seem pretty depressing.

Unless it's affecting day to day life I honestly would t worry about it, used to love reading about all this stuff and conspiracy's ect, usually an escape from the boredom of life. doesn't mean he's going to turn into some raging lunatic in real life.

There is often a shred of truth to these conspiracy theories.

For example, there were trials on quantum dot dye which would be included with the vaccine and could be seen via infrared to check vaccine status. The trial was partly funded by Bill Gates. There were ideas that an app could be used to view this info. No this isn’t a microchip but it’s a way of storing and extracting data via a vaccine using technology inserted into the subject. So easily translated that way.

People are incredibly anxious right now. Cut him some slack.

Whatever you decide, it is very important you are in a position of strength. Living closer to your family and trusted friends will give you the grounding and confidence to deal with this. I would personally be fighting for him to return from the rabbit hole with professional help and other means.

Can you talk to your in laws and ask them to speak with him? You said you are not close, but I would nonetheless speak to them about your concerns. Perhaps his father or a much loved grandfather could step in for a man to man chat over a drink? He needs to reflect on what this kind of thought process will do his life/his marriage and children.

I don't think you can do this alone op.

He needs to understand fully what is at stake, and I think you have to clear with him about that, all the while offering to help him find the right specialist to talk this through. I hope he comes back to you, and you can chalk this up to another side effect of covid.

Wow, so he hasn't actually DONE anything, just hangs out online chatting about stuff you find objectionable? Why not talk to him about it? Leaving him/ diagnosing him with a wealth of drug/mental health problems is outlandish to say the least. I'm curious about all that stuff, have friends who believe it all, because as someone said there's a tiny grain of truth in a lot of it. It's INTERESTING, and life is a bit dull at the moment. What I know I always can do is chat to my DP about some of these wild ideas, and together we come to our own conclusions.

I have friends whose marriage split up because of his extreme views and behaviour. It started out as him getting into religion in a big way several years back and spiralled out of control so he became someone who literally goes round “baptising” people in rivers throughout the country these days. And since COVID, he’s gone down that extreme route, about it all being a hoax, plus the celeb paedo thing and the anti vaccine thing, you name it. He now posts regular videos on FB of himself shouting at shoppers in supermarkets, resulting in him getting escorted off the premises. And he has an army of supporters who call him a legend. I know I should unfollow him on FB but I just can’t stop looking at the car crash.

My friends were together over 20 years, they seemed the most solid, nicest, chilled couple you could ever meet, but they couldn’t survive this. There’s no use having a “chat” with someone like this, or trying to be open minded.

He can’t open his mind to any other views - why should you be the one to be open minded OP?

@Abbeywell79 btw you setting up fake accounts to follow him is not healthy is it?

quote
"I only know this because I set up a fake account so I could follow his groups so I know what he is reading and sometimes what he posts within these groups. Otherwise I wouldn't have a clue as he appears to be the perfect partner/dad the rest of the time"

Do you love your husband, @Abbeywell79? I’m not really getting the sense of any love or compassion for him from your posts, but that may be because you’re focusing more on the practicalities at the moment. I think the best advice would depend on how you actually feel about him, how solid your relationship is, and how much compromise and understanding you’re willing to show each other.

I do think that telling him he can’t talk to you about what he thinks and believes, and then stalking him online to find out what he thinks and believes, is hugely unfair. As is encouraging him to move 200 miles away ‘for support’ when you’re intending to end the marriage soon after.

@nobodysdaughter and what happens when he tells me he no longer believes in vaccines so our children can't receive them. Do I have a nice cosy chat with him about that?

We are beyond debating and coming to our own conclusions. He's gone.

@justasking111 I didn't set up the fake account to follow him, it was to follow the groups he is part of so I could understand his beliefs better. He sometimes posts on them yes but it was more to get an understanding of what he believed without having to hear the words coming from his mouth which I was finding upsetting.

There are so many things the Government and media have lied about, gaslighted the public, covered up lies, taking away freedom that my own GP said is not based on medical reasons at all! The vaccine they literally salivating at getting it out with not the proper testing that would be usual to do. That Rishi has now told musicians and artists to retrain! I mean who dares tell us humans how to live Our life and our dreams or what to do ? The shambolic death tolls, more lies.

As for elite well I can not side with Q anon on that one, it’s too extreme And So many things are far to out there. I don’t think I will ever forgive the BBC and other powerful ones knew and we all know they know and you can make all the excuses you want for that but people knew and didn’t do anything. The media and government better tread carefully as many professionals from medical to the lawyers And are not shy about speaking out are going for crimes against humanity with this government.

As for your husband Do him a favour and leave him, he will see his children and no judge unless he has been very abusive will not let him do so and your reasons for spying on him are awful. In a world where good men are few he doesn’t seem he is that bad. He may have these views now but people have always had views unless it affect the mentally You are just giving your opinion. He hasn’t been diagnosed as such and it takes more then conspiracies to do that. Most people with mental health issues don’t touch conspiracies except on mumsnet. A car crash is coming alright and it’s the ones you thin you trust the most.

@JoinTheMicrodots I love him very much, but he's not the person he was a few months ago. He's changed. So I don't know what my feelings are for him at the moment which is why I'm focusing on being practical and yes, it has meant I'm having to remove some of the emotion.

My priority is our children and keeping them safe and ensuring they have a happy future, ideally with a family intact.

[quote Abbeywell79]@nobodysdaughter and what happens when he tells me he no longer believes in vaccines so our children can't receive them. Do I have a nice cosy chat with him about that?

We are beyond debating and coming to our own conclusions. He's gone.[/quote]
You were spying on him and knew which were his posts, how?

As for vaccines dont be so dramatic, you just take the kids and get the jabs.

Your relationship is over if you say so, so extract yourself carefully and as I said make sure the money is not being funnelled away.

Move to your family for support and then separate. If he comes to his senses before then that’s great but if not he’s not the person you got together with any more.

My mum has gone down this path. She spent the weekend when I was visiting ranting about how viruses don’t exist, coronavirus is a conspiracy between governments to manipulate world financial markets and impose tyranny on the people and vaccines cause illness. She is very intelligent but socially disconnected. There is absolutely no debating with her. If scientific consensus supports the existence of viruses and vaccination that is because the pharmaceutical companies are in ‘cahoots’ with the researchers and all their papers are all meaningless. The only valid research paper is one that supports her views, and if it has been debunked as fake science that is just further evidence of the government’s attack on the truth. And her views are not beliefs but ‘facts’. We are subjected to smug comments whenever anything vaguely related is mentioned.

I can honestly say hand on heart that I believe that conspiracy theories appeal to her because she is unhappy with how her life has turned out and is seeking an explanation for this that doesn’t mean she has to take responsibility for her choices. I think being isolated socially is also extremely unhealthy and gives her a lot of spare time to ruminate. She feels unfulfilled but ‘knowing better’ than the general population makes her feel superior. Just sharing as I’ve read a fair amount online about this topic and I hope it makes you feel a bit less alone with this problem.

Show him this ...

If you've seen what he's posted, OP, and have read things in the QAnon groups then you'll know what you're up against. They are dead set that they have the 'facts' and are right. However that doesn't mean they can't get disillusioned and realise that maybe it's all been a big con. I have seen some lose faith. Maybe wait and see how the election pans out. He may see things differently. But honestly if he keeps on going down that path, then it'll become very difficult for the both of you to carry on living together.

@pointythings

"And critical thinking does not mean equal weight must be given to manifest idiocy."

Well said....as Carl Sagan put it..

“It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

Contact social services with your concerns and tell them you want to leave to protect your mental health and your children's? Tell them you're concerned what he will tell them once you're not there to protect them - on weekends etc.

It is easier to just say it's a load of nonsense, but it's the opposite of what you want to do if you want to change his mind. It's like someone in the heady early days of falling in love - direct criticism rarely works even when it seems so bloody obvious to everyone else. It's just rather than with a person, it's with a group and the identity and social bonds that come with it. That can be enough for some to leave, entirely understandable, but that's up to you.

You said "he doesn't have many friends." that social connection is a big part of these groups. Leaving it isn't just leaving these ideas, it's leaving the people and the feelings of being 'in the know' and welcomed behind. If you look into Flat Earth, a lot of them will openly say that nothing will convince them because they don't really have anywhere else to go, nowhere else they feel like they do there. The rest of the world can seem really unwelcoming in comparison and it's really easy to feed into that by bashing it.

As a pp said, having someone experienced in dealing with cults and conspiracy theories could be helpful. For yourself, maybe look into Cult Watch, Cult Education, and other writing on communicating with those in damaging cults and the tons out there on talking with people you disagree with from people like those who deal with lifelong KKK members.

As written, I would Keep Under Review as there isn't an impact now and encourage him to have a wider social network. Hard at the best of times and even harder now, but finding other spaces where he feels the same way can be a big help. Having those forums be a smaller and smaller part of his world picture.

Also, and it's difficult and you'll want to do this away from the kids, but make a space where you can flip the instinct to squash this. Talking it out is a way to process and see what's wrong, keeping it in his head and the forums will never do that. Try to stay neutral, talk about where he found these ideas, how it connects to other things he knows, why he thinks the source is reliable (finding out conflicting things on the big names can sometimes help), and his values.

You don't need to have counterarguments to the information, you need the counterexamples in the facts he already knows. So yes, there are people who rape children and people who use power to do so & cover it up, but how is adreneline - known to age people, part of the stress reponse - going to be any use compared to botox and plastic surgery? Does Trump holding out until his re-election to do anything fit your partner's values (which likely wouldn't involve standing by if kids are being raped?). Discuss what he knows and thinks, and what you know of him, don't get into fact checking.

anon are you sure you not part of some far left group because your post sounds abit unhinged as well. As far as I can see, and doctors and politicians alike are simply trying to save as many lives as possible. They are fast tracking the vaccines to SAVE lives, not as some human experiment!

A car crash is not coming this is such hysterical nonsense. By the spring the virus will be waning as the seasons change, a vaccine may be ready if we are very lucky and we may be fighting off a recession possibly - but this huge car crash you envisage is not going to happen. Life will go on, it may have to be adjusted but it will go on as before.

The problem with this type of extremist views is they pit you against anyone who doesn't believe- so you then become the enemy through your disbelief. That's different than, say, having a husband like mine who is religious but he doesn't impose that on me, or require me to do anything in relation to it, and our lives and values are still aligned (religion could make him see me as the enemy and pit us against each other too, but in his case, he's very liberal and easy going so it's not an issue). Once you are the enemy, how do you make a life together?

@Friendsoftheearth

I also find it rather alarming that anyone would end a previously happy marriage over this - essentially he is debating on a forum about alternative ideas about the world. He tried to talk to you about it, but you shut him down so he has found what he is looking for elsewhere. It is very creepy that you are now stalking him on there I have to say. He does have a right to privacy of thought and on line, he is also allowed to have different views to you (within reason)

Ultimately your dh sounds like he is looking for answers. That this period of time has really rattled him. It may not be a breakdown or crisis in the real sense, but a crisis in the way he now sees the world.

And lets face it we are all thinking/saying WTAF on a daily basis these days!

Perhaps his own world view has been so badly shaken over the last year, he is now looking for answers in lots of places he would not have previously considered. Listen to what he has to say rather than shutting him down, you might find the reason for this if you listen long enough.

PS are you also the type of person who won't even talk much less have dinner with a brexiteer by any chance?

There is a lack of tolerance that has now become acceptable in some sections of society, some that simply can not bear to have their world view and values challenged in any way, it is extremely unhealthy - and yet they don't seem to realise that this is very bad for them and for society in general. You can't just close things down because you don't agree, and you certainly can't end your marriage about a difference of opinion in the short term. Maybe if it were to continue and cause a problem, but not in the time frame you have described.

Keep an open mind, move back home - and offer him some support, and a conversation.

I would be furious if my dh stalked on a forum btw so consider how he might react when/if you tell him that.

Great post.

I’ve been on a few on the sites and some of the posts are awful and triggering especially pictures of the ‘abused’ children that are ‘about to be saved’

Honestly I burst in to tears when I clicked on a link because it was quite obvious some thing bad had happened to this child. And that’s how it hooks you in. You want to know where on earth this picture has come from, is the child ok now? Is the child even alive. Then you have posters offering their ‘truth’ and who are about to save them. I had to come off social media for a while because I was truly disturbed at what I’d seen.

A lot of film stars and musicians are being hammered on Twitter right now also very famous people - so if you read something about them then go to their SM and see other people accusing them I can see why some people start to think it’s true.

This has been a huge movement before Covid set in and it’s exploded this year.

A lot of the theories have a grain of truth that’s how they are able to take hold. When people found out Bill gates held a convention in October last year about how New York would deal with a new Corina virus pandemic and having senior key members of the emergency services and Amy there it just fanned the flames. The event was called Event 201, it’s website is still up and it’s on YouTube. So yes I can absolutely see why people think ‘wait that’s a bit weird..’

If I was you OP and you still loved him I’d ask him to have a break of SM. To focus on reconnecting and seeing if he needs help with depression or anxiety.

There is a man on SM who was campaigning and rallying people and doing lots of videos of him self talking, I cane across his latest video the other day and he looks quite unwell. Some of these people are not stupid, they have just been hooked in because something was already wrong inside them.

All the people telling OP she should stay with him because he’s a ”good man” - what would you say if he was a kind, caring husband, good father, conscientious employee, supportive partner - but happened to have extreme racist views on the quiet? What if he never spoke about his views, but if asked would swear blind that all ethnic minorities were inferior scum who shouldn’t be in this country? Would that be OK? Because he was just experimenting with belief systems and it didn’t affect his day to day life?

I have to chuckle that anyone could think that Trump is the saviour of mankind.

Could you scare him a bit, show or tell him what you've written in your post. Tell him unless this all stops and he starts seeing sense you'll be leaving