To leave my cult-obsessed DP?

[Abbeywell79]

My first time in AIBU but I'm getting bugger-all response elsewhere so I've got my big-girl pants on!

Been with DP for 7 years, 2 toddlers, both knackered but we generally have a solid relationship. Same outlook on life (or used to), views on parenting etc.

When Covid struck, dp kept warning me about how we were going to be given a vaccine with a microchip and we were all going to be controlled etc etc.

We had a huge row about it, I said I didn't want to hear such nonsense and long story short, we agreed we wouldn't discuss it any more otherwise it was going to damage our relationship.

Since then, things have been fine on the surface. Day-to day life has resumed. However, because he hasn't had me to talk to about his worries, he's found a load of new buddies online and he is now a fully-fledged member of Qanon who spout all sorts including Satanism in Hollywood, child trafficking for organ harvesting to keep famous people looking good, lizard people in the royal family, 9/11 faked etc.

I only know this because I set up a fake account so I could follow his groups so I know what he is reading and sometimes what he posts within these groups. Otherwise I wouldn't have a clue as he appears to be the perfect partner/dad the rest of the time.

I can't see a way back from this. I always said I would give things until after the US election (when Trump will apparently save the world and 'all will be revealed') to see if it will improve but I think he is so far gone I've lost the man I fell in love with.

My options seem to be:

1. Stay with him. That way I get to keep an eye on the lunacy and ensure he's not trying to indoctrinate our children as they get older
2. Split up. We are about to move 200 miles away to be nearer my family and I was planning on staying with him until we did that then at least I have support. But then it would mean essentially kicking him out then will I lose my kids to him every other weekend? I don't want them travelling and then I won't be able to monitor what he's telling them
3. Keep it under review. DC aren't being affected by it yet so wait until they're older or until his mask starts to slip and he can't contain his 'secrets' any longer

All options seem pretty depressing.

I'm sorry to hear that, OP, and possibly in retrospect closing down the dialogue wasn't ideal though I understand how infuriating this can be - the different approaches to evidence and scepticism applied to main stream media and the conspiracies never seem logical to me.

The only suggestion I have short of separating would be to gently begin a dialogue and try and gently ask questions about evidence, why he believes and so on. It's unlikely but not impossible that if you can do this without being seen as a 'steeple' or 'one of them', you might help him bring some critical thinking to his beliefs (though most people i real life can't do that'. If not then the only other thing I've seen is that someone can hold bonkers beliefs and not be unsafe with children though you'd want to keep eyes open for a psychotic breakdown and/or belief that someone is saving their children from worse.

Good luck.

@Friendsoftheearth

I also find it rather alarming that anyone would end a previously happy marriage over this - essentially he is debating on a forum about alternative ideas about the world. He tried to talk to you about it, but you shut him down so he has found what he is looking for elsewhere. It is very creepy that you are now stalking him on there I have to say. He does have a right to privacy of thought and on line, he is also allowed to have different views to you (within reason)

Ultimately your dh sounds like he is looking for answers. That this period of time has really rattled him. It may not be a breakdown or crisis in the real sense, but a crisis in the way he now sees the world.

And lets face it we are all thinking/saying WTAF on a daily basis these days!

Perhaps his own world view has been so badly shaken over the last year, he is now looking for answers in lots of places he would not have previously considered. Listen to what he has to say rather than shutting him down, you might find the reason for this if you listen long enough.

PS are you also the type of person who won't even talk much less have dinner with a brexiteer by any chance?

There is a lack of tolerance that has now become acceptable in some sections of society, some that simply can not bear to have their world view and values challenged in any way, it is extremely unhealthy - and yet they don't seem to realise that this is very bad for them and for society in general. You can't just close things down because you don't agree, and you certainly can't end your marriage about a difference of opinion in the short term. Maybe if it were to continue and cause a problem, but not in the time frame you have described.

Keep an open mind, move back home - and offer him some support, and a conversation.

I would be furious if my dh stalked on a forum btw so consider how he might react when/if you tell him that.

That's because their views are UTTER FUCKING BOLLOCKS. Sorry, but there is nothing reasonable about thinking that celebrities rape babies until they produce adrenaline and then harvest it so they can look young. Brexiters at least have a legitimate argument, even though I voted Remain, and I can understand why they voted the way they did. People who think Jews drink the blood of babies, on the other hand, can fuck off and die. Because that's what it is, it's blood libel repackaged, and that's why I have a violent reaction to people like you.

I guess you're going to call me a paedophile now, right? That's what you QAnoners usually do.

I wouldn't LTB as it's not affecting you. If he is otherwise a good and loving partner then so what. He is not inflicting it on you. It's a bit weird but not a dealbreaker. If he starts acting on it or going on about it then that's different.

The social dilemma on Netflix is interesting and addresses people getting manipulated online. Maybe worth a watch to start a conversation if he's willing.

I completely understand why you shut him down, but you are now in a difficult situation in that it's hard to tell what's really going on in his head - and watching his posting history will only get you so far. What about a few concrete, tentative ways to open the door:

eg when there's a vaccination, is he going to strongly resist you/the DC getting it?

Is it possible to have a conversation about a less conspiracy-focused element eg, re Trump, what does he think about Trump's comments (or lack thereof) re white supremacy? Does DH think that black people are routinely treated less well than white people etc etc. Things that before you would perhaps have been on the same page about - can you get a sense if he's gone completely the other way/is in denial etc etc (might not be racism for you as a couple but perhaps religion/immigration/social mobility or whatever).

But personally, i don't think it's unreasonable. I know that, if, for example, DH suddenly got very religious, I don't think our marriage would survive. I have very religious friends and family and there's always a fine line we all walk and I just don't think I could walk that line with my husband.

@PhilSwagielka You have it spot on, there is no trying to debate with them.

If you want to leave him do, I dont see you need to use the his views to justify it too leave if he is so unhinged he is not safe to be around

lady gaga attends parties where they sacrifice children and drink their blood just so she can have nice skin.

...actually he may be past the point of reasonable discussion 😬

I am not supporting conspiracy theorists or groups, but I do think ending a marriage because someone is exploring different viewpoints etc is quite drastic. As human beings we have to be able to evolve, consider and reconsider our values and views - we are not welded to one world view for eternity. I accept it does not fit in with something op is comfortable with, but surely we have to find out why he is now thinking along these lines? What has prompted this? What is behind it?

You say he is very fixed that it is the truth and it is happening op, have you asked him for evidence, looked at his explanations? If it is pure fantasy he will be able to see for himself that it is fiction. Asking for rational evidence, staying calm and not judging or dismissing him would be the first step. Even the most irrational insane cult deserves to be able to put their case, and for others to respectfully listen and weigh up the content, consider the points. We can not go through life just shutting down anything that does not 'fit in' with our preconceived ideas.

If you are that alarmed then he needs to speak to someone - counselling or some kind of therapy so a proper diagnosis can be made by a qualified professional.

I’d be out of there sharpish.

Anyone who supports Qanon is supporting some really fundamental issues I cannot agree with, nor be with anyone who does.

I feel for you as I have been through similar, however my husband's concern is the almost imminent end of the world due to climate change. Over time, he's actually won me over to his argument (this has been going on for 2ish years) although my views are not as extreme as his. But this is a bit different because his view is scientifically (perhaps) accurate albeit debatable. I wrote on here about it in the past and looking back I think he did have a bit of a breakdown. We're ok now and he now has friends who he meets with to debate the end of the world (yes really) and he he has also found a way to make a (small) difference and that has actually been a huge catalyst to making him easier to live with.

I do worry that your dp might be mentally ill and if anything like mine will totally refuse to seek any help. I would encourage him to seek help but if he really won't In your case I don't think there's anything you can do other than leave him unfortunately. There is a chance he will come to his senses by himself but I don't know how likely that is - probably not very sadly.

He is in a worm hole and most struggle to ever get back out.
I’m afraid I’d have to leave as this kind of thing is massively worrying .
No sane person would believe this rubbish .

What about option 4.

Talk. To. Him.
Go to marriage counselling.
Suggest individual counselling.

If it really is so good other than this, then I’m baffled that you’re so close to pressing the nuclear button without really trying.

Another one who agrees 100% with @PhilSwagielka this is quite serious, and the right wing aspect is terrifying to be honest.

You do need to move before you tackle this though because

• you were going to move anyway
• your DH is exhibiting disordered thoughts and therefore may well react extremely badly to you breaking up / having a serious conversation before you move
• who knows where this will go, your DH may calm down somewhat or he may carry on being fairly ingrained (more likely) and you will absolutely need support from your family if this seeps into issues with your children

@unmarkedbythat I'm sorry you went through that, it sounds horrible. Can I ask what things are like with your DH now?

The change in a few short months is worrying. He looks the same, acts the same, laughs with the children, makes dinner but there's something missing. He's not 'present' and on the rare occasion this topic crops up a whole new look comes across his face and his tone of voice changes.

He has used drugs in the past though nothing for years, he is a health fanatic, but I have no doubt this history has added to his susceptibility for falling for this.

I take screenshots where I can but tbh what he posts isn't too ridiculous. He's not abusive (that's one thing I made clear to him that i would not tolerate, I didn't want him getting into fights with people and from what I can tell he hasn't).

Whilst I don't like that I follow him online, I'm not checking constantly (I hate reading it all) but it's more to protect myself from any nasty surprises so when we do need to discuss this again I'm more prepared.

When we had our big row, I did promise him that I would keep an open mind and try to educate myself about his beliefs. We then agreed we would respect each others opinion and that they were different and we left it at that (hopefully that's good enough for @Friendsoftheearth!!).

It's funny to see people here talking about her DH like he's a wounded chick that needs support.

He's a grown man who wants to feel like he's in control of everything. Literally e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g. I've seen some of these groups. Some people in them are genuinely mentally ill, most of the others are just enjoying feeling special and superior.

Don't fall into the classic trap and try to make your exit as comfortable for him as possible, even when it's detrimental to your needs and even your children's. He won't thank you. If it's the best thing for you and your DC's to be near your family, move there.

These groups are disturbing and ridiculous
But
If he has never displayed these views before, could this not be a mental health consequence of Covid.

Goodness knows he wouldn’t be alone if his mental health had indeed plummeted, as evidenced all over mumsnet

And indeed the world.
Mental health has taken a hit
And as this coincided with the Covid, it could be manifestation of mental health deterioration

I'd move first so you are domiciled near your support network then at the right time kick him out. He might come to his senses, miracles do happen but unlikely, you will though be able to insist that the kids live with you as that's where they are settled

This is an (oddly specific) fear of mine - that a loved one gets really into wacky conspiracy theories. QAnon is insane.

I don't think it's irrational of you to be considering leaving, but I do think you should try and discuss this with him before you hit the nuclear button. Do your research, there must be advice available online? It's a form of radicalisation, so there will be effective ways of opening this up with him.

At the end of it all though, I don't think many people would blame you for leaving and distancing your children from this. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it. Good luck.

I would not be thrilled if my dh suddenly started getting involved in this kind of thing, but then we would spend hours and hours, months if we needed to debating why he felt it was creditable. We would analyse the evidence, and discuss the points - and surely it would become obvious no? In the same way over the years we have debated religion, climate change, world order, economics and political strife and all the rest.

I am comfortable with listening to any view, of any kind - but I appreciate I have good mental health, plenty of energy and enjoy a good debate. If I was knackered, stressed it would be the last thing I would consider.

If you feel his values now put your family in danger, if you feel his absorption with this is risking his own mental health or yours - it is always your right to walk away or to separate.

@MajesticWhine

I wouldn't LTB as it's not affecting you. If he is otherwise a good and loving partner then so what. He is not inflicting it on you. It's a bit weird but not a dealbreaker. If he starts acting on it or going on about it then that's different.

Huh?

How can you say its not affecting you?

The OP is with someone who believes dangerous conspiracy theories and could inflict this on the way they raise their children...

Also how can they have a conversation about anything vaguely grown-up?

I couldn't even talk to someone like this let alone sleep with or raise children with them....

Hi OP, I left my dh because he’d joined a religious cult (when my dcs were a similar age to yours).

My dh’s behaviour was very different to yours: it effected all areas of our family life as there were lots of restrictions on what was permitted and his religious practice was an exaggeration and extension of already present beliefs and behaviours.

So I think your dh may be undergoing a mild psychotic episode, he sounds delusional and paranoid. If you’re spying on him because you can’t talk together it sounds really bad. I’m so sorry.

Yea if a man was saying all this people would 'you need to support your wife, she needs your help, stop putting yourself first does she have PND' etc.

Think you need a specialist in cults, not just any therapist.

There are numerous cult awareness groups who will be able to steer you in the right direction, and would try to understand the cult before you speak to him directly about it as he will have answers for everything.

On the surface, of course it all sounds bat shit crazy, but these cults are absolute experts in appealing often to really intelligent people with a grain of truth and then snow balls from there.

But please try to get information from a source who knows about this cult, although would stop short of staging an intervention.

My view of cults is that they can be really appealing for some as they offer a solution to the difficulties of life, and just dismissing his indoctrination as bonkers or whatever, will make you the enemy.

Whether you stay with him or not really depends on how deep he is into it and whether he would choose the cult over his family.