To leave my cult-obsessed DP?

[Abbeywell79]

My first time in AIBU but I'm getting bugger-all response elsewhere so I've got my big-girl pants on!

Been with DP for 7 years, 2 toddlers, both knackered but we generally have a solid relationship. Same outlook on life (or used to), views on parenting etc.

When Covid struck, dp kept warning me about how we were going to be given a vaccine with a microchip and we were all going to be controlled etc etc.

We had a huge row about it, I said I didn't want to hear such nonsense and long story short, we agreed we wouldn't discuss it any more otherwise it was going to damage our relationship.

Since then, things have been fine on the surface. Day-to day life has resumed. However, because he hasn't had me to talk to about his worries, he's found a load of new buddies online and he is now a fully-fledged member of Qanon who spout all sorts including Satanism in Hollywood, child trafficking for organ harvesting to keep famous people looking good, lizard people in the royal family, 9/11 faked etc.

I only know this because I set up a fake account so I could follow his groups so I know what he is reading and sometimes what he posts within these groups. Otherwise I wouldn't have a clue as he appears to be the perfect partner/dad the rest of the time.

I can't see a way back from this. I always said I would give things until after the US election (when Trump will apparently save the world and 'all will be revealed') to see if it will improve but I think he is so far gone I've lost the man I fell in love with.

My options seem to be:

1. Stay with him. That way I get to keep an eye on the lunacy and ensure he's not trying to indoctrinate our children as they get older
2. Split up. We are about to move 200 miles away to be nearer my family and I was planning on staying with him until we did that then at least I have support. But then it would mean essentially kicking him out then will I lose my kids to him every other weekend? I don't want them travelling and then I won't be able to monitor what he's telling them
3. Keep it under review. DC aren't being affected by it yet so wait until they're older or until his mask starts to slip and he can't contain his 'secrets' any longer

All options seem pretty depressing.

Move home in any event op. You need to have good friends and family around you, and regardless of whether he comes back from this or not, it would be far better for you and the children.

Covid is the gift that keeps giving, that much is true.

I would hold on till the move and then try talking to him, but if that didn’t work it’s hard to see the marriage surviving. I’d absolutely keep checking what he’s going into online, I’d be looking out for anything that risked my children.

So many people's MH shot to pieces

@Friendsoftheearth

Covid is the gift that keeps giving, that much is true.

Aint that the truth.

Thing is, he has been reading up on this for months now and has such in-depth knowledge I fear that any future discussion I have will result in him 'winning' as I simply don't have all the counter arguments to hand. I'm crap at debating, always have been, my mind freezes which is why it's easier to simply tell him it's a load of nonsense and ignore it.

I’d be really concerned about this to be honest. These kind of groups are definitely rabbit holes and before you know it the person you once knew isn’t there anymore.

For example would he put yours or your children’s life in danger for these beliefs, would he put this new group he has found first, if that answer is yes (even if it’s something as small as refusing to let your children get vaccines) then get the f*ck out of there.

@Franklyfrost

Hi OP, I left my dh because he’d joined a religious cult (when my dcs were a similar age to yours).

My dh’s behaviour was very different to yours: it effected all areas of our family life as there were lots of restrictions on what was permitted and his religious practice was an exaggeration and extension of already present beliefs and behaviours.

So I think your dh may be undergoing a mild psychotic episode, he sounds delusional and paranoid. If you’re spying on him because you can’t talk together it sounds really bad. I’m so sorry.

I'm sorry to hear this. Can I ask, how do you manage things with the DC in this situation? I am aware of a few people who are divorced where one is very religious and the other isn't and it seems to create some issues with the DC in terms of what's allowed in one home vs the other or children coming home all fire and brimstone etc? It feels like a very difficult situation to manage.

I know a lot of people at the minute, who prior to covid were coherent and intelligent. They are now starting to unravel.

To be fair, I can see why people would be drawn to these alternative opinions in the current climate, as nothing makes sense.

If this is part of a wider problem, then consider a seperation. However, I would strongly suggest that this is some form of mental illness.

Trying to seek logic, in a very very illogical world is understandable. Sadly, it looks like he is turning to the wrong source.

@unmarkedbythat I'm sorry you went through that, it sounds horrible. Can I ask what things are like with your DH now?

On the surface they're OK. Well, at a deeper level, they're OK, else I would have gone.

I started to write a much longer reply but it's too raw and too long so I deleted it. Overall- he still believes in his new system, but it's no longer dominating his entire life and everything he thinks and says, and he is almost like his old self in terms of us. But it took a long time and if I sit back and look at it from an outsider's perspective... I wouldn't have encouraged me to stay, and I would wince for me and some of the things I did and put up with. And like I said, the absolute trust is gone.

Honestly, friends who are honest with you are what you need more than anything dealing with this. I hope your DH realises what he is risking and takes step to come back to himself and you.

If you are toying with leaving, and seem quite emotionless about it, then I think the relationship is dead. If you are only thinking of practical issues as to why you should stay together, then I don't think you are in love with him anymore. So either work on that, or leave.

Does your DH have an inferiority complex or low self-esteem? I saw a TV programme where a psychiatrist believed that many people with similar beliefs to your DH suffer from this and use the spreading of these beliefs as a means of inceasing their self-esteem. That they believe they are now important because they are telling/warming people about this. Which might make it difficult to try and change his beliefs through logical discussion.

Although this may not director affect your DC now,later it could with him not wanting to have them vaccinated or even sharing his beliefs with them. Most adults see his beliefs are ridiculous, but a child cannot do that so easily and may suffer nightmares or worse if he shares his beliefs.

I wish you a lot of luck in the coming period.

I never understand why people who are so open to conspiracy don’t question them as it were. Like if you question the ‘mainstream media’ then why don’t you question the stuff some rando has posted on Facebook

Anyway that is by the by. Sorry this is happening to you op. My ex was deep into conspiracies (didn’t want to buy a house because he thought the world was ending soon so no point etc) - it started small, by reading about actual coverups by various governments. It got to the point where I couldn’t talk about any current social or economic issue without him rolling his eyes at me and parroting our whatever conspiracy he had for it. At first I engaged - we discussed things - but over time he just didn’t even want hear what I had to say.

It wasn’t the one reason we broke up, but it was among them. And he wasn’t even into this baby eating qanon stuff. I can’t tell you what to do but for me, it was indicative of me and my ex having fundamentally different world views. It was really sad for me, and I did try with him, but he thought I was stupid for not believing what he did, which isn’t the same respect I paid to his opinions.

@unmarkedbythat

I think the idea that conspiracists are all suffering from a collective nervous breakdown is a bit of a cop-out tbh.

Yes COVID has affected a lot of people's mental health in some quite deep-rooted ways and they deserve our sympathy.

But if you are a parent to children you have a responsibility to bring them up in a rational way and to protect their health and welfare. And that includes making sure they understand the role science plays in society and giving them a grounding in critical thinking.

You wouldn't give someone a pass to join the BNP if they were suffering from a breakdown or to go on a months-long drinking binge. There would be a degree of sympathy but ultimately there has to be an understanding its their responsibility to behave like an adult.

Anyone who buys into this stuff is stepping away from their responsibilities as a partner and father. It's that black and white.

It also suggests worrying low intelligence and on that basis alone I would be worried.

Move, then leave him. 100%.

Hiya, I am aware of all those conspiracy theories and I am all for a critical mind that questions things tbh. I am not a member of a cult but I do occasionally fall down a rabbit hole as it is so easy to do on the internet and honestly, you really do not know what is true lol. His theory’s COULD be true. That’s how it sucks you in. It’s possible tho, that give it a little while he will pop back out of the rabbit hole and be like “oh right I have a normal life and a nice family”, so I would wait tbh.... it could just be some form of escapism from reality that his brain needs for a little while. The past few months have been hard on everybody.

My friend's ASD son (also easily led) has become one of these. Watches NOTHING but confirmation-bias building YouTube channels and reads nothing but material pertaining to it. Every time he opens his mouth (and he talks to stim) it's a continuous stream of increasingly unlikely scenarios.

It's part of an inability to control a situation. Current days are so far beyond anyone's control (especially if you have a fear of infection) that a belief that it's all manufactured/a conspiracy is literally the only way that some people are finding to function. It's too terrifying to face the fact that the world is completely random and, ultimately NOBODY is in control or can tell what will happen next.

So the only thing I can suggest (apart from splitting up) is to see if giving your DH more control over things in day to day life helps? Outside his, frankly more barking, beliefs, obviously. But, at the end, I don't think many come back from a complete immersion in these beliefs. Yes, there may be something behind SOME of them, but it's the total swallowing of the entire package that's the worrying thing, there's no critical reasoning going on with your DH by the sounds of it.

It's this shit, isn't it:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/20/the-qanon-conspiracy

There is a chance he will come out of his delusional world view, in time; how awful for you to be dealing with this. It seems to have infected people's minds, like the virus they are trying to deny/find alternative interpretations for, in their fear of loss of control, etc. Loads of them on MN, too. Does my head in. I really wish you the best.

There’s a recent episode of the podcast Endless Thread, called “QAnon casualties” that might help you if you listen to it. The whole conspiracy bullshit is designed to hook people in and keep them there, and families have been torn apart by it - but they do talk about how to still have relationships with conspiracy followers, and they also have links to support groups for family members or for people who’ve escaped it.

I have seen some of those rabbit holes, even if it was true, what can one man do about anything that goes on in the world.

Hopefully his interest will wane when you move up to be near your family and he has outside interests in a new place. His family are no great shakes from what you say.

A relative went through something similar with her OH, some sun cult, the world was going to end in March a few years ago, he wanted to move to the wilds of Wales, water from well, food stores, solar power, the family rallied round, ensured the house was not sold, March came and went everything stayed the same.

We know bad things happened in hollywood, we know we are just a number in the scheme of things tell him that the love of his little family are real and the rest beyond is control.

As for medical intervention that is something for professionals to look at.

Oh just a word of warning the sun cult wanted all his money, make sure he is not sending money to anyone.

I could not be with someone who had such a drastically different world view to me. It’s really troubling op as I’m sure you know. It is like he’s been recruited to a cult, sadly I don’t know how you reach someone like that when they’re in so deep. I would leave. I’m guessing his views have always been somewhat on this side of things?

So sorry to hear this OP.
Like unmarked i had similar experience a while back when my now ex's interests changed very quickly to very different ones thst he was very passionate, intense about. Many years later i can see this was partly due to his undisgnosed bipolar combined with autistic traits. As unmarked said it was a nightmare to live with.

He does sound vulnerable - bullied, not close to his family, few friends which combined with the chaotic state of the world we're living in sounds like a bad combination for him.

I think you need to try and explain how this new intense interest/way of seeing the world is affecting you and your relationship with him.
As others have said I'd carry on with plans to move closer to your family as well. Best wishes.

This isn't some innocuous difference of opinion. COVID denial is dangerous. Believing QAnon type bullshit is going to be a bad influence on the kids. And critical thinking does not mean equal weight must be given to manifest idiocy. You can acknowledge it, say that you accept that they believe it, but it isn't worth joining that person down the rabbit hole.

I'd be ending the relationship.

From what I’ve heard of these cults and their beliefs, there really isn’t much point debating it. The believers have an abundance of explanations for why what they’re saying is true. Nothing with shake their faith.
The main issue here is that they have a fundamentally different set of values and ideas. If someone can’t see the glaringly obvious ridiculousness of those theories, then no amount of rational discussion will change that. It’s like extreme racists - they believe that black people are inferior, and nothing anyone says or does will change that. friends would you still advocate staying with someone and opening your mind to their views if they believed that Hitler was right to kill Jews?
I actually think all these cult people are on a spectrum of psychosis, with some genuinely delusional beliefs. People with psychosis may see something normal - like a cloud passing over the sun - and know with absolute certainty that it means they are the messiah and must save the world. It sounds like the cult believers see random events as definitive proof of their bizarre theories.
I would find it very hard to stay with someone who had such crazy beliefs.