To leave my cult-obsessed DP?

[Abbeywell79]

My first time in AIBU but I'm getting bugger-all response elsewhere so I've got my big-girl pants on!

Been with DP for 7 years, 2 toddlers, both knackered but we generally have a solid relationship. Same outlook on life (or used to), views on parenting etc.

When Covid struck, dp kept warning me about how we were going to be given a vaccine with a microchip and we were all going to be controlled etc etc.

We had a huge row about it, I said I didn't want to hear such nonsense and long story short, we agreed we wouldn't discuss it any more otherwise it was going to damage our relationship.

Since then, things have been fine on the surface. Day-to day life has resumed. However, because he hasn't had me to talk to about his worries, he's found a load of new buddies online and he is now a fully-fledged member of Qanon who spout all sorts including Satanism in Hollywood, child trafficking for organ harvesting to keep famous people looking good, lizard people in the royal family, 9/11 faked etc.

I only know this because I set up a fake account so I could follow his groups so I know what he is reading and sometimes what he posts within these groups. Otherwise I wouldn't have a clue as he appears to be the perfect partner/dad the rest of the time.

I can't see a way back from this. I always said I would give things until after the US election (when Trump will apparently save the world and 'all will be revealed') to see if it will improve but I think he is so far gone I've lost the man I fell in love with.

My options seem to be:

1. Stay with him. That way I get to keep an eye on the lunacy and ensure he's not trying to indoctrinate our children as they get older
2. Split up. We are about to move 200 miles away to be nearer my family and I was planning on staying with him until we did that then at least I have support. But then it would mean essentially kicking him out then will I lose my kids to him every other weekend? I don't want them travelling and then I won't be able to monitor what he's telling them
3. Keep it under review. DC aren't being affected by it yet so wait until they're older or until his mask starts to slip and he can't contain his 'secrets' any longer

All options seem pretty depressing.

Oh please Friendsoftheearth. Total codswallop. (Interesting user name considering these loons don't 'believe' in climate change).

OP I agree with others, that you need to know if he's prepared to seek help or not, and how far gone he is. I think you should explain that this behaviour has crossed a boundary and that you can't continue married unless he acknowledges he needs help, then see how he responds?

Ultimately, if he's unwilling to seek help and still thinks he's in the right then I personally I wouldn't want him anywhere near my kids. I'd also be screenshotting his online posts to ensure you have a paper trail of evidence of his abhorrent views in case he tries to fight for more access to the DC. Sorry it's come to this OP but you are right to trust your gut.

@Friendsoftheearth

The only reasonable response on this thread .. im quite shocked actually how quick its labelled a mental health crisis because it doesn't fit the norm

@Friendsoftheearth my mind isn't closed on this, I appreciate there are elements of what he 'believes' that are true but I'm not going to sit there and listen to him telling me how lady gaga attends parties where they sacrifice children and drink their blood just so she can have nice skin. I won't indulge it.

You might think it is far out and stupid, but not everyone has to agree with your world view.

This isn't just about suspecting that a lot of decisions are made behind closed doors by people whose names we don't know and who we certainly didn't vote for. (Hey there Dominic Cummings & Palantir!)

QAnon believers literally think that the world's elite are harvesting the blood of children in their search for eternal life.

There's enough real corruption in our world without inventing sci-fi stuff about microchips in the vaccines.

This podcast was quite interesting on QAnon:
gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/llhe5nm/166-country-of-liars

Apparently gained a lot of ground recently.
I couldn't deal with it personally. It would just be too big a difference in opinions and very, very basic attitudes.

What you say about him being a prime candidate is spot on - very bright but easily bullied and easily led, with something going on in his personal life to shake him.

Plus maybe Covid left him with not much going on in real life and too much time on the internet.

Could you hold out until after the move to nearer your family? If he is a lot busier and spending more time with real people and a lot less on line it will all be to the good. Think about it like limiting a teen's screen time. He needs real life activities.

I listened to a podcast recently about a QAnon conspiracy theorist who stopped believing. It was a couple of YouTube videos that finally disproved it for him. Might be worth a listen: www.wbur.org/endlessthread/2020/10/02/qanon-casualties-conspiracy-theory

They also mentioned a Reddit site called QAnon Casualties - ‘a Reddit community dedicated to supporting loved ones of QAnon’ www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/

crosspelican Horrible situation. So hard to know how best to handle it, you sound like you have enormous patience.

OP you sound like you've got your head very firmly screwed on. I agree move and build your life and see how it goes, with the changes we're likely to see in the world in the next year or so I'm hopeful some people who've got sunk into this will grow through it and come to their senses.

I would talk to him about it. I would also definitely plan to move - if it's serious you will need your support network. It might be mental health related and you'll all as a family be able to support him better if you are in a supportive environment. And if in fact you decide to split up, you'll be better off closer to your family.

I also find it rather alarming that anyone would end a previously happy marriage over this - essentially he is debating on a forum about alternative ideas about the world.
He tried to talk to you about it, but you shut him down so he has found what he is looking for elsewhere. It is very creepy that you are now stalking him on there I have to say. He does have a right to privacy of thought and on line, he is also allowed to have different views to you (within reason)

Ultimately your dh sounds like he is looking for answers. That this period of time has really rattled him. It may not be a breakdown or crisis in the real sense, but a crisis in the way he now sees the world.

And lets face it we are all thinking/saying WTAF on a daily basis these days!

Perhaps his own world view has been so badly shaken over the last year, he is now looking for answers in lots of places he would not have previously considered. Listen to what he has to say rather than shutting him down, you might find the reason for this if you listen long enough.

PS are you also the type of person who won't even talk much less have dinner with a brexiteer by any chance?

There is a lack of tolerance that has now become acceptable in some sections of society, some that simply can not bear to have their world view and values challenged in any way, it is extremely unhealthy - and yet they don't seem to realise that this is very bad for them and for society in general. You can't just close things down because you don't agree, and you certainly can't end your marriage about a difference of opinion in the short term. Maybe if it were to continue and cause a problem, but not in the time frame you have described.

Keep an open mind, move back home - and offer him some support, and a conversation.

I would be furious if my dh stalked on a forum btw so consider how he might react when/if you tell him that.

There's also this one on the child trafficking theory and the idea that Rachel Chandler is called Chandler because she is a Child Handler, i.e. a trafficker...
gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhw5w
It's not even just a different opinion, is it? It's the inability to see what is rational and irrational. Scary in an "are my children physically safe with this person" manner.

Setting up a fake account to stalk your DH online isn't usual or healthy behaviour. Ignore that comment. You are not the unhealthy one here, your DH is. This is a serious issue and I’ve done the same (Ex was cheating). Sometimes in a relationship we need the facts.

Your DH is having very disordered thinking and you are right to consider leaving. I would move and set yourself up with your support. After that has happened then broach him and to see what he thinks but you will be in a mentally strong position. It’s important as he might start being quite weird with you. I have an ex who is a bit weak for this kind of conspiracy thinking and his paranoia has turned on me occasionally and he’s been quite mean and angry.

You will have to do EOW but your kids will have a grounded support in you and your family.

Friendsoftheearth Do you know about their theories? It's nothing like Brexit. It's frighteningly irrational. Here's a brief overview of the child trafficking one: www.bbc.com/news/world-53416247

Leaving the relationship sounds like a radical first step. Do you not think you should try relationship counselling first?

I'd leave. You can't live with this kind of lunacy.

Has he been using drugs recently? I've witnessed frim afar the spiralling descent into extreme conspiracy nonsense of a previously highly intelligent ex following longterm cannabis use.

DH doesn't believe the Qanon stuff but did take up a whole new set of beliefs coming up 2 years ago that rocked our marriage. It is the closest we have ever come to divorce and there are still days I am not sure we will make it long term, because it broke me. Dealing with a stranger who looked and sounded like my DH but was a totally different man broke me. And he was a bastard with it; he repeated to me endlessly that nothing had changed, he hadn't changed, I was inventing problems, I was mad, I wanted to be unhappy, I was imaging the absolute and total change in every aspect of our relationship, the usual gaslighting stuff (I remember the exact moment I realised he was gaslighting, when a friend got me to look it up for a pretend reason and waited for me to comprehend that that was what he was doing to me). He let me go to the GP and go back on anti depressants and believe that I was ill again. I think I actually did end up ill, but as a reaction to what was happening.

I could go on and on but my point is, don't underestimate the horrible impact this can have on you. It is frightening and miserable. Even if DH snapped all the way back to his former self tomorrow, our relationship, our lives and my thoughts about and feelings for him will never be the same. I will never get that trust back. I will never again feel like he is my person who I can tell anything to and who will always have my back. Things are a lot better, so much better, than they were a year ago, but they can never be what they were and I will never feel as safe as I did.

He absolutely believes this. He hates it when I refer to it as his 'belief'
Yes, that resonates with me. DH doesn't have beliefs, he knows truths.

Don't let yours do to you what I let mine do to me. And for god's sake make sure you have friends you can really trust who will really listen and have the ovaries to point out to you what is really happening when you are living with someone who has turned into someone else and tells you the problems are all in your head.

He tried to talk to you about it, but you shut him down so he has found what he is looking for elsewhere. please whoever said this, this is pretty awful. You are blaming the OP for her husbands worrying thoughts and disturbed behaviour. This isn’t alternative views, is paranoia and extreme disturbed thinking which will impact on her kids. It is like being in a cult.

Is he a weed user? If so, maybe addressing that might help?

Good idea on screenshots of his postings /comments etc because he could easily turn nasty if /when you decide to leave, and (he may) cause trouble around access considerations

The problem with QAnon and their ilk is that most of their theories have a basis in truth, however small, and anything that doesn't is impossible to disprove anyway.

There is no accident that this is coming up alongside Covid-19. As with all pandemics in the past, populations get more and more superstitious, adopting all kinds of rituals to keep their fears at bay. It is an attempt to wrest control over a world that feels entirely chaotic.

I have a family member who is going through the same, and it is all-consuming. My tactic, for as long as it's viable, is to maintain open lines of communication while making it clear in as gentle a way as possible that I believe differently. It's tough, because it also pushes our buttons, and it's worth bearing that in mind too. No one is immune to the crazy; it just hits us in different ways, and some of us deal with it better/differently than others.

Were there no signs of this before Covid? My instinct is to say that if it came on suddenly and is relatively short term then maybe it is some kind of mental health issue and can be resolved with support and treatment. But I know people can veer off into fanaticism and never return - after all, David Icke seemed like a pretty normal chap until, well, until he wasn’t. Have you spoken to any of his family or friends to see if they have noticed anything?

I think the first thing you need to do is brace yourself for a proper conversation with him to see how deep this runs and what he actually believes. And make it clear to him how worried you are. Good luck to you - it must be incredibly difficult.

I have an acquaintance who is just like your DH, she will not listen to reason and I have told her that I won’t meet up with her if she spouts such garbage. (As a pp said there are grains of truth in some of this though.)
I think that I would have to leave in your situation and take your children with you. Just out of interest is your DH from the USA?

@VenusOfWillendorf

I think you need to talk to him about it - and see how much of it he actually believes and how much of it is just fascination with alternative theories. It's perfectly possible to spend time in these groups and interact and play along to see what people say - without actually buying into it.

If its something that has only just come up for him within the last six months, and if everything else is happy and well, I wouldn't throw away your relationship without trying to figure out what might be behind this.

Sorry but no.

People don't get into these groups for shits and giggles. They are run by sinister people funded often by right wing groups. It's not something you mess around with for fun.

The kindest interpretation is that your DP is seriously thick: and who would want to stay with someone thick? At best it shows a disturbing lack of judgement.

At worst it suggests he may have bought into conspiracy stuff which could lead him to ally himself with unpleasant political movements and make poor decisions about your children's health and indoctrinate them with shit.

I'd walk. I couldn't stay with someone who gave any of this airspace.