To leave my cult-obsessed DP?

[Abbeywell79]

My first time in AIBU but I'm getting bugger-all response elsewhere so I've got my big-girl pants on!

Been with DP for 7 years, 2 toddlers, both knackered but we generally have a solid relationship. Same outlook on life (or used to), views on parenting etc.

When Covid struck, dp kept warning me about how we were going to be given a vaccine with a microchip and we were all going to be controlled etc etc.

We had a huge row about it, I said I didn't want to hear such nonsense and long story short, we agreed we wouldn't discuss it any more otherwise it was going to damage our relationship.

Since then, things have been fine on the surface. Day-to day life has resumed. However, because he hasn't had me to talk to about his worries, he's found a load of new buddies online and he is now a fully-fledged member of Qanon who spout all sorts including Satanism in Hollywood, child trafficking for organ harvesting to keep famous people looking good, lizard people in the royal family, 9/11 faked etc.

I only know this because I set up a fake account so I could follow his groups so I know what he is reading and sometimes what he posts within these groups. Otherwise I wouldn't have a clue as he appears to be the perfect partner/dad the rest of the time.

I can't see a way back from this. I always said I would give things until after the US election (when Trump will apparently save the world and 'all will be revealed') to see if it will improve but I think he is so far gone I've lost the man I fell in love with.

My options seem to be:

1. Stay with him. That way I get to keep an eye on the lunacy and ensure he's not trying to indoctrinate our children as they get older
2. Split up. We are about to move 200 miles away to be nearer my family and I was planning on staying with him until we did that then at least I have support. But then it would mean essentially kicking him out then will I lose my kids to him every other weekend? I don't want them travelling and then I won't be able to monitor what he's telling them
3. Keep it under review. DC aren't being affected by it yet so wait until they're older or until his mask starts to slip and he can't contain his 'secrets' any longer

All options seem pretty depressing.

Friendsoftheearth nobody is saying that there is just one truth and that's it. However, some things are just true and there is no 'alternative truth'. When getting sucked into 'alternative truth' means your kids can't be vaccinated against killer diseases, it's time to draw a line and stop being tolerant of the nonsense.

Flat Earthism is also not an alternative truth - it's just bollocks.

Lastly, we are all entitled to decide what we can and cannot live with in terms of a partner's beliefs.

You have my sympathy OP.
I went through it with my DH at the beginning of lockdown.
Thankfully, he read himself into the rabbit hole and managed to read himself out of it, when he started reading a lot of what you have mentioned, the insane stuff!

I would have 100% walked if he carried on, its exhausting.

@Brockwell. Are we living with the same person ? My DP thinks Michelle Obama is really a man 🤔

@bookworm14

Believing that Chrissy Teigen murdered her own baby in order to give Trump COVID isn’t a ‘different way of thinking’; it’s categorically insane and should be treated as such.

The problem with post-modernism is that many people have come to believe that all ideas and opinions are somehow equally valid, and there is no objective truth. This is a very dangerous belief.

Exactly.

There is nothing admirable about being so open-minded that you accept any nonsense spouted by anyone. Tales of lizard people and Hollywood cannibals, crisis actors and satanic cults sacrificing children, etc. don't represent reasonable (or even remotely plausible) versions of the real world. Although we live in an era of "alternative facts," critical thinking has not completely disappeared (thank goodness).

point I have said throughout that it is op's choice if she feels anything he does whether it is looking at random forums or doing something more harmful, if she feels he is negatively damaging her, their children or their life together she should leave. I have also suggested she move to be with her parents whatever happens. Of course we all have the right to feel safe, understood and comfortable, if that has changed for her, and she can't get past it - then she should leave.

That does not change the fact he may meet someone else who loves lizards as much as he does, and they might indulge their passions for CT every night - and quite frankly unless they are causing harm, they should be left in peace. It takes all sorts to make the world what it is, I don't believe in condemning people because they have different thoughts/views to me.

I am okay with accepting people as they are (as long as they are not harming others with racist/homophobic slurs and all the rest) Flat Earth and all, because quite frankly it would be a bloody boring world if we were all the same! You don't have to agree, and isn't it wonderful that you and I can disagree to our hearts content with no one stopping or censoring us! So I say cheers to freedom of speech and thought and long may it continue.

There was a brilliant documentary a few years ago where a woman describes how her Liberal Dad slipped into obsessive ultra right wing paranoia after listening to talk radio (in the US) on his drive to work every day. The family were all tearing their hair out and no one knew what to do, he wouldn't listen to anyone etc. They almost completely lost touch because she couldn't bear it. In the end he retired, or changed jobs and stopped listening to that radio station and after a while he gradually got back to his old self (took years) but it was good and surprising to see that he could revert from that state.

Here it is
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brainwashing_of_My_Dad

Could there be something in trying to separate him from the phone/ Internet rather than addressing the issues head on?

oint I have said throughout that it is op's choice if she feels anything he does whether it is looking at random forums or doing something more harmful, if she feels he is negatively damaging her, their children or their life together she should leave. I have also suggested she move to be with her parents whatever happens. Of course we all have the right to feel safe, understood and comfortable, if that has changed for her, and she can't get past it - then she should leave.

That does not change the fact he may meet someone else who loves lizards as much as he does, and they might indulge their passions for CT every night - and quite frankly unless they are causing harm, they should be left in peace. It takes all sorts to make the world what it is, I don't believe in condemning people because they have different thoughts/views to me.

I am okay with accepting people as they are (as long as they are not harming others with racist/homophobic slurs and all the rest) Flat Earth and all, because quite frankly it would be a bloody boring world if we were all the same! You don't have to agree, and isn't it wonderful that you and I can disagree to our hearts content with no one stopping or censoring us! So I say cheers to freedom of speech and thought wine and long may it continue.

This has got to be the best post! I agree entirely. If she feels in danger then leave ,personally I hope for OP sake she Doesnt mater one regret it if she isn’t dangerous and she just doesn’t agree with him.

Some things are so out there but elite human trafficking rings is very real, I’m just waiting for Ghislaine if she isn’t kiled first to name some names because I do think there is so much more Than meets the eye and Hollywood has got some dark stuff going on there , is it as bad as Qanon say no I don’t think so no and they have taken it to the extreme but definitely seedy dark stuff and no not every actor/actress in involved but wouldn’t be surprised if there maybe a surprise name come up.

I don’t believe in flat earth lol but again as Elon musK says dying the is light of consciousness (roughly translated )as wake up because whilst some conspiracies are crazy so is anyone who blindly believes the daily mail and Bill Gates , Hancock and Johnson want to save you all all because they care lol

@Friendsoftheearth there is free speech and thought and then there’s someone telling the world Chrissy Tiegen murdered her baby in support of some crazy set of theories AND telling her that on her social media

That is disgusting and indefensible

[quote ManxiousCat]@Brockwell. Are we living with the same person ? My DP thinks Michelle Obama is really a man 🤔[/quote]
Mine too.

Another conspiracy is a dramatic population drop in a few countries including the UK. It shows that in 2025 the UK population will be 15 million only. www.deagel.com/country/United%20Kingdom

And here is he explanation of this conspiracy human-synthesis.ghost.io/2019/03/14/deagel-predictions/

Now, you may say it's not true and can't be true. Good but it still worries a lot of people from those who believe in lizards and flat Earth to those who have opposite views.

figgy I am guessing that op's dp doesn't buy into that! You can look at different theories, and think there is something in that - whilst dismissing others as being completely outlandish and ridiculous. You are trying to make things black and white, when in fact there are several shades of grey to be considered.

Of course we can react to upsetting claims like that with the revulsion, perhaps a natural reaction for most people - without dismissing the entire forum as being a waste of space.

I am not really talking about that one forum, or one theory - but a broader view that we can not dismiss things simply because we ourselves do not believe it/agree or understand it. Living here in this country allows us to have the freedom to explore all types of theory scientific/religious or simple philosophy routes without condemning others for coming to different conclusions to us. Most should be welcome. We are e a much richer nation for it.

I am guessing Chrissy Tiegen will consider such posts are from the mentally unstable and delete and block them, and dismiss them, she will rightly assume there is something very wrong with those people, and give it no further thought. People like Chrissy will be used to the nutters, not just the ones from a certain forum. That does not mean we condemn all CT just because there is one that is mentally unwell, in the same way we do not condemn all churches because some bishops were locked up for child abuse.

We have to move away from rigid thinking, and allow ideas to flourish, and maybe they are ridiculous, or maybe they are beyond your level of understanding and you just don't understand them. Either way we live in a free world - and open minds have created some of the most amazing products/life changing medicines and tech as a result.

friendsoftheearth I think this kind of relativism is fine if comparing this stuff to a religious faith for example.

But the point is these people claim that their absurd theories are an “alternative truth” and posit the idea that the “mainstream media” is blinkered and brainwashed while they themselves represent a genuine objective truth.

So you get these theories about Bill Gates and his enthusiasm for microchipping the population presented as “the real story that the establishment covers up”. Etc etc. Without a shred of evidence.

This would be something one could dismiss as harmless fantasies if we were talking about role play games or something but it’s not. It’s presented as truth.

And it’s just not acceptable for this stuff to be used to underpin the way people approach something as important as vaccination. That had to have a grounding in science.

There is some truth in the a Bill Gates’ plan to add a microchip to vaccines. He’s been open about the idea and his plans were documented. For the rest of it I have no idea, but if you think your beliefs are incompatible with his then it won’t make for a healthy relationship.

@FunnyRobin, reading Mumsnet there will be lots of fight over his vaccine.

@Friendsoftheearth

nanny It is kind of terrifying that you think there is just ONE truth and thats it. You do know the world/knowledge/science is evolving all of the time and has since time began. There is no one truth, just what you believe to be true - just one view in a spec of billions.

It is interesting that Hawkings was laughed at the past for his theories ib the early days, and yet he went on to prove they were right. Einstein with his dyslexia was dismissed and shunned - we know what happened next.
Keeping a broad mind, keeping an open mind and not being so bloody quick to judge people should be a basic quality that most people should aspire to - it is not about this truth or that truth, it is having the common sense and humanity to allow others to follow their own journey, take their own decisions - explore the world in their own way. It is important to keep questioning everything around you - to keep your curiosity alive, to remain inquisitive, and retain critical thinking. I have no time for CT personally but if others want to believe in lizards then so be it.

PS Yes I am fairly liberal - where possible (and safe) I do support people to live and let live - it makes the world a more interesting authentic place to live in.

Of course there is only one truth. The earth can't be round and flat at the same time, only one of those things can be true regardless of how many people believe each one.

In working with my students I often see in them a tendency to assign equivalency to every idea, whether fact-based research or crackpot notion spun from whole cloth. I suppose it is both a sign of the times and a facet of their ages (university students, most in the 18-22 age range). I have witnessed many of them move away from this habit of thought and toward more critical thinking, which IMO can only be a positive development.

The problem is anyone with “alternate” views now is classed as a conspiracy theorist. Yes the whole lizard royal family / flat earth crap is nonsense but lots of it is mixed up with truths you only have to look at Jimmy Savile and the BBC to know that’s true as that was also once a “conspiracy theory”.

It’s so easy to pass off things we don’t understand or believe as just a “conspiracy theorist” with mental health issues or the flip side the “sheep” just following the herd.

Religion is the biggest conspiracy theory there is and yet billions of people follow religion. As long as he isn’t damaging anyone leave him to believe whatever he chooses, you don’t own him or his mind and it’s not for for you to tell him what he thinks is wrong or anyone else for that matter. I think people who don’t question what’s really going on in the world are the ones with mental health problems and a much scarier problem.

Years ago there was a conspiracy about Mother Theresa that she was evil and very far from being a Saint but it's not a conspiracy anymore.

sheo and others: By your very nature, if you feel people should NOT be allowed to have different views, you are never going to change your mind now! It is your way or the highway clearly, so there is no point in continuing to post - because you are fixed and rigid, so it is utterly futile and pointless trying to reason with you.

It is better to let life show you that science is not fixed, nothing is fixed, and the 'truth' changes all of the time, that way you can see from experience.

You can close yourself off to anything that does not 'sit well' with you, but for me that would be far too small a world to live in, too stunted and intellectually limiting.

Far better to imagine that you don't actually know everything and all the answers, and there are many surprises in the world, and many real things that happen every day that would stun and shock you no doubt, they are not any less valid because you do not understand/believe in them.

Closed minds scare me far more than open curious ones thats for sure!

So long as he isn't forcing it down your throat, I really don't see the issue.
He is entitled to his beliefs, as are you.

I prefer to research for myself, and to come to my own informed conclusions. I have no respect for anyone who starts abusing and name-calling others for having a different viewpoint.

Q is not a cult. That viewpoint is a disinformed 'conspiracy' in itself, and amuses me a great deal.
Unfortunately you need to actually engage with it to have an appropriate opinion either way. Deciding to follow the view of a mainstream newspaper, backed up by nonsensical snippets about reptilians? Really? If you tell me which Q drop is associated with that one, I'll be fascinated to actually check the validity.

The shouty posts here contain the most disinformation.
The best advice is to do your own research, trust your own judgement, and respect others that do the same.

It is interesting that Hawkings was laughed at the past for his theories ib the early days, and yet he went on to prove they were right

Did he?

Einstein with his dyslexia was dismissed and shunned - we know what happened next.

Einstein was a free thinker but he was very much grounded in the system...it was his knowledge of what had gone before, rather than him arguing the system/science was all wrong, that led to him to writing his pivotal papers that eventually helped pave the way for the likes of Quantum mechanics...

It’s the whole “be kind” thing respect everyone’s views however objectively daft or wrong. I find it chilling tbh. Ultimate bimbo thinking.

Your right to free speech does not extend to shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre. When you are doing actual harm with your “free speech“ and lies right thinking people need to speak up or it can get dangerous for everyone. These people can vote.

Q is not a cult. That viewpoint is a disinformed 'conspiracy' in itself, and amuses me a great deal.

Yes it is a cult. I have researched for myself, and come to my own informed conclusions, and they are: this is a cult and its core beliefs are batshit insane.

bimbo thinking

I haven't heard that expression for upwards of thirty years!
I considered it misogynistic then, as I do now.

I am very surprised to read such an expression, particularly from a poster who should know better.