To not understand why women intentionally have children with these men

[Pickagoddamnname]

A friend said this about a mutual friend. Basically mutual friend has 2 children with a man who she can’t leave them with because ‘he doesn’t know what to do on his own’. So mutual friend is always solely responsible for childcare except when she has family babysitters. My friend thinks this is unfair on mutual friend and the children and I kind of agree but it’s really not an uncommon situation. I don’t know if mutual friend suspected her DH would be like this as a father or has maybe taken over the parenting to such an extent that he lets her get on with it as I’ve only known the couple a few years.

No man has every chatted up a woman by saying "I'm an absolute fucking roaster, couldn't mind a cheese plant, lazy as fuck - how about some kids?".

I think I question more that after one child and seeing how useless he is they then keep having more kids.

What sort of man fathers children he is incapable of looking after? That's where I'd place the blame, not on the mother who may not have known what prince of men she got hitched to.

I would scratch my head if it was obvious with dc no1 already... .

@SBTLove

I think I question more that after one child and seeing how useless he is they then keep having more kids.

It's not as easy as "this dad is crap, better try a different one" though is it?

@FreeGlib

No man has every chatted up a woman by saying "I'm an absolute fucking roaster, couldn't mind a cheese plant, lazy as fuck - how about some kids?".

I'd love to see this on "first dates" or something

Depends if they moan about it maybe they think they are ok?
Perhaps the children are something to love as the other half is so useless.

After they've proved themselves useless with the first child then yes I agree. Its foolish to try again, as if more children will suddenly turn a useless man into superdad.

I have seen it before though where women are unwilling to let the father try - nothing is ever quite to their standards. Usually from a place of anxiety and worry, but it hampers the fathers and after a while they withdraw.
Do t get me wrong, there are plenty of deadbeat dad's out there, but also plenty of micromanaging mother's who don't give dad's the opportunity to show what they're capable of. How will he ever learn if he isn't given the chance?

Because maybe he wasn't a good dad with number 1, but he might get his shit together by child number 4...

@workingfortheclampdown

What sort of man fathers children he is incapable of looking after? That's where I'd place the blame, not on the mother who may not have known what prince of men she got hitched to.

This is always said in these threads. I do agree we need to put responsibility and shame on men. But really it's quite easy to understand, they get looked after, there's very little stigma to being a shit dad and they get the fun bits of family life. So although we need to make this behaviour in men more socially unacceptable it's very obvious why they would do it.

What is less clear is why women would knowingly take on all of the child care and domestic work. What's in it for them? So it's not about blame. It's about asking why you'd do this with very little benefit.

Is it desperation for children?

@SBTLove

I think I question more that after one child and seeing how useless he is they then keep having more kids.

This with bells on.

Also we don't hold men to high enough standards so women think it's ok.

Because you have no idea what type of parent you or your other half will be until you have children. I also strongly think though that some men will avoid the “grunt work” of looking after their children and their partners then pick up the slack so the man has no motivation to do anything more because they’ve now got an “easy life”. It doesn’t reflect well on that man but then who can really say they enjoy doing packed lunches, endless dinners etc. If these men were left to it with their DC then they’d manage; maybe not to the standard of the mum but they’d have to do it.

@Lurchermom

I have seen it before though where women are unwilling to let the father try - nothing is ever quite to their standards. Usually from a place of anxiety and worry, but it hampers the fathers and after a while they withdraw. Do t get me wrong, there are plenty of deadbeat dad's out there, but also plenty of micromanaging mother's who don't give dad's the opportunity to show what they're capable of. How will he ever learn if he isn't given the chance?

That's one part of it too. It's quite different reasons in different families.

I remember my friend having to walk her husband to the car with the 2 kids because he was incapable of getting them in the car and the buggy in the boot on his own. I branded him a massive twat. (He actually is but not for that!!)

Fast forward 3 years and my husband was incapable of folding down our buggy no matter how many times he was shown.....he's great with the kids but rubbish with gadgets.

As long as they are happy really it's no one else's business. My friend is happy with her husband and I'm happy with mine.

Also people have a second child with men who are useless dads because they want a second child and they are left with deciding whether they have 1 child and resent their partner for being crap AND limiting them to one child through crapness or have a second child and still resent their partner for crapness but at least have some of what they want from life. It’s not actually an easy decision and leaving the partner and having another child with someone who isn’t crap isn’t gauranteed.

It's easy to decide you are hopeless at something if somebody else is prepared to take over. Nearly all these men would step up and learn if they had to.

I can understand if you get sucked into child number one but I don’t get it for subsequent children. A shit dad to one child isn’t going to become an amazing dad after number two.

Also as PP said it’s not always the dad. Some women martyr themselves and infantilise men believing the children are ‘theirs’. The dad never learns how to look after his own kids for fear of getting it wrong.

I also agree with @Lurchermom; after my DD was born I had to actively pull myself back from trying to plan the time DH spent with DD without me; I’d pack the bag for him, make her lunch etc then be resentful that I’d done that but he’d never asked me to do it and when I stopped he did it all himself without a problem and if he forgot something then he managed

In my exes case, if I left the housework etc to him, it simply wouldn't get done, and i couldn't live like that. He would do fuck all, no matter how desperate it needed doing. The house would look like a bomb had went off after two days. Wouldn't help with the baby either, full stop. We didn't live together until after I my DC was born so I had no idea at all he was a lazy slob. Living with him was the worst time of my life, hands down.

I don’t understand why people continually post these threads, knowing that they are intentionally blaming women for men’s behaviour

@SBTLove

I think I question more that after one child and seeing how useless he is they then keep having more kids.

I agree - but I would also say I really doubt most of these men were fantastic partners to begin with, and for example were shouldering an equal load of housework etc before the first child came, and then BAM! decided to do a 180 and become lazy cockwombles at home once baby was there.

There are lots of reasons and it depends on the individual family but some of them include:

• may as well stay with a useless man and have the children you want than leave and face the uncertain of finding a new partner, settling down together, planning a family, then the hassle of access/shared custody, maintenance, blended family, etc

• lack of opportunities and options, sometimes its better the devil you know

• finances, far harder to manage on one wage and/or benefits

• housing, as above

• domestic abuse, not every woman has freedom over her reproductive choices and abuse by its nature is secretive so you don't necessarily know which of your friend/family members is being abused

• worry about leaving the children with useless dad during access weekends

• not viewing laziness as a deal breaker, despite grumbling about it

• a view that its better for the children to have two parents who are living together than a 'broken home

• the stigma attached to being a single mother, a stigma which increases if the children are from more than one father

There are other reasons but these are the main ones I can think of right now.

There’s a degree of learned helplessness there. The man doesn’t have to do it so he doesn’t. I think it sometimes reinforces in mothers the idea that they are more adept more able, the more proficient parent and so the cycle goes on. You see it in comments like “ I can’t go out because the baby doesn’t settle for anyone but me” - ok don’t go out but don’t expect that situation to change. I would say a sign to look out for in men is when they say “ I’m babysitting “ in reference to their own children, or they’re doing childcare “ for their wife”. It’s clear to see what the default position is.