To not understand why women intentionally have children with these men

[Pickagoddamnname]

A friend said this about a mutual friend. Basically mutual friend has 2 children with a man who she can’t leave them with because ‘he doesn’t know what to do on his own’. So mutual friend is always solely responsible for childcare except when she has family babysitters. My friend thinks this is unfair on mutual friend and the children and I kind of agree but it’s really not an uncommon situation. I don’t know if mutual friend suspected her DH would be like this as a father or has maybe taken over the parenting to such an extent that he lets her get on with it as I’ve only known the couple a few years.

I get the outrage at the woman blaming etc but could be like the sex strike by the women in Ancient Rome - if we all turned our backs on these men they would have to change as no woman would have them.

It's because having children feels like a more exciting version of a 10 year old getting a pet or something to some people. Oh it doesn't matter about DH I'll be able to cope I'll love my children, want my children so much, and will devote myself to them and pick up any slack.

Then when reality sets in that children are not actually that interesting or fun and the excitement wanes a bit then fingers start getting pointed at the DH who never actually agreed to step up in the first place.

Then when reality sets in that children are not actually that interesting or fun and the excitement wanes a bit then fingers start getting pointed at the DH who never actually agreed to step up in the first place.

I think this idea that a man can have a child and then just sort of decide whether or not he fancies 'stepping up' and doing some parenting is the whole problem.

Well first off you don't realise exactly how crap they are going to be until you witness it. I kind of assumed that we'd learn together. Instead I stepped up and he stepped back. There's often nothing really that you do together which is on the same scale as having DC, before you have DC. Maybe if you've planned a wedding together - but even that wouldn't necessarily reveal workshy tendencies, because of a cultural belief that only women care about weddings and it's normal for men to be uninvolved in the planning. Maybe if you've had pets together before DC, although pets aren't quite on the same level!

Second, I don't think you realise quite the strength of the protective feelings you end up having for DC, before they arrive. I would have quite happily let XP look after my cat even though he was a bit lax, I didn't realise that for a baby I would feel much more strongly about exactly how things should be done. It used to really upset me that I'd get him back from contact (at 13 months old) with drinks of full strength ribena in his backpack, stinking of smoke, or the time he turned up with a totally unsuitable car seat (newborn one) when DS was too big for it and wanted to just turn it forwards and use it that way - those weren't the kinds of things I thought would bother me before I was a parent, but they really really did! (OK, the car seat one definitely should, but I think before you have kids you don't always know - when we were kids we squished up 4-5 in the back seat, or sat on people's laps!)

My DH can't do anything with children expect from watching something together on TV or do very occasional shopping (a few times a year). You can't predict these things before having children. My DCs are older now. It was much harder when they were very little.

Unfortunately men who would be rubbish dads don't have some equivalent of a birthmark on them to indicate this.

If they did then Boris Johnson would be childless, for example.

Try using your intelligence OP...that might help with your understanding.

I think this idea that a man can have a child and then just sort of decide whether or not he fancies 'stepping up' and doing some parenting is the whole problem.

Totally agree with this.

Its no secret how babies are made, men have the option of wearing s condoms if they wish to reduce the chances of getting their partner pregnant.

The replies here are very frustrating. Are we saying all the men who turn out to be useless shitty dads were perfect partners and there was no hint? Some yes all, no.

It's also offensive to suggest every woman who has multiple children with a shitty father is in an abusive relationship.

Point taken @ravenmum
I guess I was quite lucky to 1) have twins, so we both had to be hands on even when I was a SAHM, 2) have a nice, decent husband who likes looking after his children and understands that we are both in charge of them and the house.

@WhatifIfeellikeacat

My DH can't do anything with children expect from watching something together on TV or do very occasional shopping (a few times a year). You can't predict these things before having children. My DCs are older now. It was much harder when they were very little.

So was it not evident he couldn't do anything when you had one? What made you think he's useless as a dad ill have another. Like I get it for him he gets to continue as he was. But it seems like just knowingly so much work for you.

“Unfortunately men who would be rubbish dads don't have some equivalent of a birthmark on them to indicate this.”

No but they do have a track record of behaviour. If he did no housework before baby the chance he’s going to step up and take on his fair share of work after is approximately zero.

I massively agree we need to make this behaviour unacceptable. As pp's have mentioned. But surely part of this is not choosing men who are clearly going to be shit.

Am I imagining the many posts I've read on here where a husband is lazy yet the op says they are ttc? Or they have one child and are pre again. These issues don't pop up overnight. Women need to expect more for themselves. This isn't blaming women. It's saying the deserve more.

Are we saying all the men who turn out to be useless shitty dads were perfect partners and there was no hint? Some yes all, no. It's also offensive to suggest every woman who has multiple children with a shitty father is in an abusive relationship.

Literally no one has said this.

What people have said is that the issue is complex and the woman in such a relationship doesn't always have the most objective view of it, there are also various societal, financial, logistical, and emotional factors at play. Its never as cut and dried as "just leave him" or "why did you have another baby with him?". If life was that simple then these problems wouldn't exist to begin with.

@Okokokitsout
With the first one DH was very busy with work. Then I fell pregnant with the 2nd one and I thought he would have more time then but something else came up.

@FreeGlib

No man has every chatted up a woman by saying "I'm an absolute fucking roaster, couldn't mind a cheese plant, lazy as fuck - how about some kids?".

I'm with FreeGlib! LOL.

Have we forgotten how many Men LOVE to say women are liars but how manipulative and fake they can be?

If you have a good one just be grateful ...and maybe understand that some women have calculated that if they are to have kids at all then half a mug is better than none at all!

It's like when one partner does the cooking because the other is a rubbish cook. Sorry but they might not be an amazing chef, but there's no reason whatsoever they can't learn to make a pasta bake, or do a jacket potato and salad. There are meals they COULD make, but we just take over because it's easier and less fuss

I’m the one who doesn’t cook in our house. Not because I’m a rubbish cook - I’m actually quite good - but because he’s so damn fussy it’s much easier if he does it and he can’t complain about the food then. It’s also the only way to get any kind of equality because it’s the only thing he does.

Then when reality sets in that children are not actually that interesting or fun and the excitement wanes a bit then fingers start getting pointed at the DH who never actually agreed to step up in the first place.

This is a bizarre way of looking at it: it assume that the man is required to actively signal during the dating or pre-children stage that he will "step up", giving the woman some sort of kitemark, that denotes whether he's "family friendly" and that its up to the woman to reject him if he doesn't.

Surely the point is that this "stepping up" should be non-negotiable to everyone who is involved in the process of procreation? Not that its on the woman to vet the man for suitability. This is part of the problem.

@BillywilliamV

Ive said before, the day you start a new relationship you should have a Mandatory three year contraceptive implant fitted. That gives you a vague chance of knowing a person before you choose to breed with them.

I was with my ex seven years before we ventured procreating. As a PP said adequate was the best he could manage and adequate became inadequate the longer he was called upon to be responsible for other people's lives as opposed to just his own. One can't always tell the future from the present.

Are we saying all the men who turn out to be useless shitty dads were perfect partners and there was no hint? Some yes all, no. It's also offensive to suggest every woman who has multiple children with a shitty father is in an abusive relationship.

As other people have pointed out its much more complex than that.

But I'd also add that what you look for in a partner for a chid-free life is not necessarily what you need in a partner for child-rearing. There are certain qualities and characteristics you don't know you need until you don't have them.

When you're in your mid 20s, someone's ability to plan a household budget isn't necessarily something that draws women like moths to a flame.

Now you can argue that that's the fault of the women for being attracted to feckless butterflies who are more interested in getting laid than in planning a secure future, but you could also argue that society has conditioned men to think they can get away with this so they do.

I had four children with a man like that.

After we had our first child together, I kind of just accepted that this is the life I have now if you see what I mean. Kids should have their parents together blah blah blah. And no matter how shit he was, I still went along with it all. We had 3 more children together even though things gradually went from bad to worse, because like I said. I was trapped and just accepted it.

It wasn’t until I realised my self worth and realised that my children deserved a better life than they had, that I told him to leave. He too can’t do things himself. I’m rebuilding a life for me and my children now, and so glad I finally had a wake up call.

I don’t regret any of my children. It’s not them who were the problem. The feelings I have for them are completely separate to the way I feel about their father.

If someone is a crap parent it isn’t someone elses fault or responsibility.

I definitely fit in the category of shit parent for the first three months, I was supposedly only providing temporary care, I didn’t know what I was doing and the only thing I was focusing on was counting down the days until it was over. Twattish and selfish really.

Anyone can be a good enough parent, but you have to want to do it. I’m no longer a shit parent, but its taken hard work to be able to say that and for it to be true. There was no one else to take over for me so I had no choice but to up my game. I’ve done various parenting courses, I volunteer as an adoptee speaker, I actively did/do attachment parenting, natural consequences, heuristic play, I quit my job and went part time, I moved closer to my new job to reduce his time in nursery/wrap around care. Weekends and free time are generally focused on his needs.

I can see how other people in that situation would think “fuck it” and let someone else crack on. Obviously it isn’t the right thing to do.

It doesn’t help that society as a whole is essentially pro shit dads, but also pro bashing mums who aren’t perfect.

The problem isn’t women intentionally choosing men who they think would be terrible parents as that would defy logic. The problem is the lazy men that portray themselves in a great light and promise the world and then when the child arrives the reality of parenting is less fun than watching YouTube videos and picking their belly button. Sadly, by this point, the woman has already had the child.
Let’s not fall in to the trap of blaming women, it’s just really grating to listen to. The problem is the men. End of.

Men are not daft, they know how to get women to do all the work, and we let them !

You need to realise this OP that a lot of these guys have a case of strategic incompetence. By definition, it means they can be incompetent as and when needed.