Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand why women intentionally have children with these men

215 replies

Pickagoddamnname · 05/10/2020 12:33

A friend said this about a mutual friend. Basically mutual friend has 2 children with a man who she can’t leave them with because ‘he doesn’t know what to do on his own’. So mutual friend is always solely responsible for childcare except when she has family babysitters. My friend thinks this is unfair on mutual friend and the children and I kind of agree but it’s really not an uncommon situation. I don’t know if mutual friend suspected her DH would be like this as a father or has maybe taken over the parenting to such an extent that he lets her get on with it as I’ve only known the couple a few years.

OP posts:
pictish · 05/10/2020 20:28

You started the thread. It’s your statement.

LolaSmiles · 05/10/2020 20:28

Would love to know where all these perfect “suitable” single prospective fathers are. If every woman who wanted children had to wait for the perfect man and father the human race would die out.
Nobody is searching for a perfect father to be.
Not being a selectively feckless man child is a fairly low bar to have when looking for a partner in my opinion.

Instead of taking the 'well there just aren't any decent men so we just have to accept arseholes who leave us doing the wifework' approach, why not say 'wouldn't it be lovely to work to a position where it's not considered acceptable to be a useless waste of space the second you get a wife/partner'.

There needs to be more kickback against these man children because once it's no longer considered acceptable in some areas of society and women no longer accept useless men as a worthwhile compromise to have children, I'd be willing to bet the number of men who magically manage to adult in a relationship (just like they do when living alone) would probably increase.

seayork2020 · 05/10/2020 20:36

Yes I dont get it, especially after the first then complaining how hard it is then going to have more

But how much is 'he can't do anything' or 'I have decided what is to be done and he is not doing it my way'

Then there is 'we have decided we are raising our child this way' was it really a joint decision?

Sure there are useless fathers it not all mothers are saints either

Nanny0gg · 05/10/2020 20:43

@Mumdiva99

I remember my friend having to walk her husband to the car with the 2 kids because he was incapable of getting them in the car and the buggy in the boot on his own. I branded him a massive twat. (He actually is but not for that!!)

Fast forward 3 years and my husband was incapable of folding down our buggy no matter how many times he was shown.....he's great with the kids but rubbish with gadgets.

As long as they are happy really it's no one else's business. My friend is happy with her husband and I'm happy with mine.

But so often they're not.

How many threads do you read on here from exhausted women, pregnant with subsequent DC, complaining that their husbands don't lift a finger whilst she's doing it all plus probably holding down a job as well?

(and there's often hobbies involved as well...)

Okokokitsout · 05/10/2020 20:45

@LolaSmiles

Would love to know where all these perfect “suitable” single prospective fathers are. If every woman who wanted children had to wait for the perfect man and father the human race would die out. Nobody is searching for a perfect father to be. Not being a selectively feckless man child is a fairly low bar to have when looking for a partner in my opinion.

Instead of taking the 'well there just aren't any decent men so we just have to accept arseholes who leave us doing the wifework' approach, why not say 'wouldn't it be lovely to work to a position where it's not considered acceptable to be a useless waste of space the second you get a wife/partner'.

There needs to be more kickback against these man children because once it's no longer considered acceptable in some areas of society and women no longer accept useless men as a worthwhile compromise to have children, I'd be willing to bet the number of men who magically manage to adult in a relationship (just like they do when living alone) would probably increase.

Yep!
Pickagoddamnname · 05/10/2020 20:54

@seayork2020 I wondered if it’s that in some cases. It most likely is however there’s a lot of cases here of the man changing for the worse when baby comes along.

I have witnessed so many women putting their partners down when caring for a baby that I’m sure some do just give up and let the woman do it their way.

I guess every situation has their own unique circumstances so there isn’t actually a definitive answer but I do think a lot of it is societal views.

OP posts:
Krankie · 05/10/2020 21:30

My point is that nobody is perfect. If not the perfect father, he may bring financial security instead. He may be great at DIY or sorting out house issues, he may be a great listener and keep the mother sane.. provide companionship.. he may just make her feel secure.

Sure all women would like their man to have ALL these qualities but that is hard to find. Women may stay in a relationship with a “rubbish” father as the dynamic just works for them, she accepts the flaws and the childcare duties.

Obviously if they’re a complete waste of space and bring nothing to the relationship, that’s different.

WhatifIfeellikeacat · 05/10/2020 21:39

I think there is a saying that you can't change a man or don't try to change a man because they can't. Well, they can. They only need to want it.
I am sure there are women who can't do many things but the saying is for men only. I guess it's to protect themGrin

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 05/10/2020 21:40

Well said, pictish, it's so disingenuous of the OP.

OP... just so you know, the 'it was my friend, not me' defence doesn't cut it. I don't believe for a minute that you didn't know how this was going to be received either. You'd have to be very thick, and I'm sure that's not the case so, I'm going with goady and a bit cowardly to use the 'my friend thinks this, not me' line.

Eng123 · 05/10/2020 21:54

Could this be a very overbearing mother who refuses to leave her children with their dad? I've met some useless men but also some uptight mothers!

Tellmetruth4 · 05/10/2020 21:56

A lot of these men are good at tricking women. However, there’s a percentage of women who make obviously poor decisions where they could see the man was bad news from the off but thought he would change for them. I know at least two women like this.

My friends dad is a serial cheat who’s in his 60s now, single with a big gut and a catheter. Don’t think he’s ever learned how to switch a washing machine on. However, to my friends amazement, he still manages to find women.

The bar is set so low for men it’s untrue. Society should shame the deadbeats more.

Pickagoddamnname · 05/10/2020 22:01

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe I must be thick then. It was a genuine discussion my friend and I had about a mutual friend. That was my friends statement and whilst I didn’t really have a good counter argument in terms of understanding the change I wasn’t in agreement that it is that simple. It’s not like I can go up to our other friend and just ask ‘was your husband always this reliant on you or did something happen?’. I’m genuinely interested in why so many women are in the situation where they are pretty much the sole parent and whether it was a change or a conscious decision.
I do have a friend who was an older Mum when she had her child, for her it was a conscious decision and we’ve discussed it as she’s open that their decision was based on her desire for children, he wasn’t sure he wanted to give up his lifestyle and so she agreed to do most of the parenting. That was the only point I could get across to my friend.

I admit I’m hindsight I should’ve worded it better to get the opinions, I shall think more before posting an OP next time.

OP posts:
CJsGoldfish · 05/10/2020 22:18

I don’t understand why people continually post these threads, knowing that they are intentionally blaming women for men’s behaviour

Or they are blaming women for going ahead DESPITE mens behaviour. Telling ourselves (and especially others) that he suddenly 'changed' is much better than admitting the signs were there all along and we went all in anyway.

Having a baby after 5 mins. Or before you've even lived life. Or because you think it will 'keep' the loser. Or just because you want one. Are all pretty crap reasons and why on earth can we not acknowledge that?

Someone mentioned the way our boys are brought up. How about we bring up our girls to aim higher than just settling with the first loser who sucks her in. To enjoy life, to travel, to gain that life experience often so sorely lacking.

Or we just continue on and blame everyone else but ourselves for the crap decisions we make 🤷‍♀️

thepeopleversuswork · 05/10/2020 23:05

CJsGoldfish

"Or they are blaming women for going ahead DESPITE mens behaviour. Telling ourselves (and especially others) that he suddenly 'changed' is much better than admitting the signs were there all along and we went all in anyway.

Having a baby after 5 mins. Or before you've even lived life. Or because you think it will 'keep' the loser. Or just because you want one. Are all pretty crap reasons and why on earth can we not acknowledge that?"

This is a master-class in victim blaming.

Men don't all come pre-packaged with a sticker that informs women whether they plan to turn into a lazy slob when they've had kids.

There are some obvious ne-er do wells but what we're talking about aren't hopeless drunks or junkies, we're talking about the fact most of them come imprinted with a template from their own upbringing which tells them, consciously or subconsciously, that their wife or partner will do all the heavy lifting domestically.

This isn't anything strategic on their part. It simply reflects the fact that society has not yet evolved sufficiently for them to see enough examples of families where there is a genuinely fair division of labour.

This may change as time goes on and as more men are raised by working mothers who are disinclined to put up with this sort of shit. But for now it's still pretty prevalent.

What exactly are women supposed to do? What level of due diligence are they supposed to perform that will screen out every man other than those super progressive men who've been raised by feminists? Are we supposed stampede over one another in a rush to find the last living man who can make his own bed and feed formula to a child?

No. We need to engineer this from the bottom up: raise our male children to understand they don't get a free ride domestically from women and raise our girls to understand they need to draw the line and draw it early.

CounsellorTroi · 05/10/2020 23:15

Or maybe raising our girls to realise that being broody does not justify or excuse crap decisions.

BewilderedDoughnut · 05/10/2020 23:17

Or maybe raising our girls to realise that being broody does not justify or excuse crap decisions

Agree! 100%

seayork2020 · 05/10/2020 23:26

Men are 100% to blame for their behaviour

but if they are behaving badly and the woman ignores it and put up with then complains how little they do with one child then 5 kids later is still complaining how useless he is and how they do it all, then it keeps on going then they can't blame the man for them putting up with it

I am not sure how many times it can be said a man is solely responsible for any behaviour he does same as a woman is responsible for the way she behaves

People can cry victim blaming all they like but if the man is a useless waste of space then don't be surprised he does not change so constantly complaining about will mean people will respond with 'then why the heck are you still with him?'

CJsGoldfish · 05/10/2020 23:50

Men don't all come pre-packaged with a sticker that informs women whether they plan to turn into a lazy slob when they've had kids

we're talking about the fact most of them come imprinted with a template from their own upbringing which tells them, consciously or subconsciously, that their wife or partner will do all the heavy lifting domestically

And this becomes pretty evident early on which is why choosing to have a baby after 5 minutes together is a stupid decision. Fingers crossed and hoping he changes for the better once a baby is here is also not the greatest plan. Happens a lot.
Additionally, someone who is blase about contraception? There's another clue that they are not that smart.

What exactly are women supposed to do?
Not portray themselves as helpless victims would be a start. The clues are generally there. Sure, they probably become amplified after pregnancy but they're usually evident. No one wants to admit that though.

We can do better with, and for, our boys AND girls

WiserOwl · 05/10/2020 23:55

ha ha! classic.

WiserOwl · 05/10/2020 23:57

my x didn't allow me to have needs, or a perception of my own. He was a blamer and projected all of his frustrations on to me and made them my fault.

Obviously I did realise I was with a man who was my mother but people aren't blessed with this level of insight at the beginning of their lives, when their fertile. That TENDS to come later.

Maryjane3227 · 05/10/2020 23:59

People can't possibly know what kind of parent a partner will be until the child/ren arrive.
So do people only have themselves to blame if they're not psychic... Not really.
What a judgemental post. Meant to divide, not support. This kind of post makes mumsnet feel as bitchy as a teenage Snapchat spat. It's coming from the same place.
What does the OP gain if they prove by logical reasoning and public approval thst indeed such women are to blame? Glory? Superiority. Just can't be arsed mumsnet. Bye.

Pinkyandthebrainz · 06/10/2020 02:40

Me neither but we'll both get flamed. Mumsnet opened my eyes to how many men are a waste of fresh air and how many women lack boundaries and basic standards.

Hopefulhen · 06/10/2020 03:00

My BIL is a lazy sod who loses his temper and shouts at his partner when their dog requires something because ‘I’m working.’
She has convinced herself that she likes to do all the housework herself because ‘he does it wrong.’
They plan to ttc in the new year. I think she is going to discover that she doesn’t actually enjoy doing all the housework and childcare whilst being disrespected. She is 30, broody and has not previously been in a relationship with anyone willing to have a baby with her so I suppose this seems like her best and only option.

ulanbatorismynextstop · 06/10/2020 03:44

They might not know how crap he is until kids gone along. People can seem amazing those first couple of years, the mask eventually slips though.

BewilderedDoughnut · 06/10/2020 08:26

People can't possibly know what kind of parent a partner will be until the child/ren arrive

If this is truly the case then why go so many women risk it? It’s not worth it.

Swipe left for the next trending thread