To think that one cannot be both a Catholic and a Feminist?

[applesauce1]

Inspired by another thread on here, my husband and I had a lively debate about this earlier. I think that a Catholic person cannot also be a Feminist for many reasons, but among these reasons, that an anti-abortion stance is an anti-woman stance.
My husband thinks that a Catholic could be pro-choice and therefore be a feminist, or that a feminist might also disagree with abortion.
He is a cultural Catholic (now atheist), and probably took this stance because he'd like to think that his mum is a feminist. In the end, we agreed to disagree. I think it is a black and white issue and he would like to think there are grey areas.
Do you think there's a way that someone can be a Catholic and also a feminist?

I'm a shit Catholic. But I suppose I am one technically although my visits to Mass are grudging ones at Christmas and Easter. You can't unring a bell.
I have been pro choice all my post puberty life - I might make a different choice but it's not for me to dictate what others should do. I'm in my fifties and it was an unpopular opinion at my Catholic school.
Obviously pro contraception.
I'm also pro women priests . I think it's only a matter of time before they are allowed. I'd love that to be in my lifetime. I suppose it's tied up rather clumsily with my ethnicity and I get mad as anything with lazy anti-Catholic shite I read on here.
I love feeling a connection with people all over the world; even if that connection is mutual exasperation at the misogyny in the Church.
My feelings don't bear close inspection.

Leaving aside the abortion question for a second, how would feminists sit comfortably with an organisation that excludes them entirely from its leadership structures and therefore policy making. Purely based on their sex. and yet very few royalists could be King (especially if they are Catholic)

and yet very few royalists could be King (especially if they are Catholic)

What’s the relevance of this comment?

If you’re a royalist you buy into the idea that one person is born to rule (and if probably isn’t you).

That’s nothing like trying to maintain a feminist position in an organisation that excludes women from its leadership positions.

If you’re a Catholic you buy into the idea that priests are male. A royalist buys into the idea that (English) kings are not Catholic.

If you’re a Catholic you buy into the idea that priests are male

And that conflicts very profoundly with being a feminist, as all the power lies with the priests.

Do you not understand that point or something? I don’t know how to make it simpler.

Tedious.

To be a feminist you do not have to be born or live outside the patriarchy. By all means if you want to feel superior to every feminist who is Catholic, or indeed Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh or any other religion go ahead but it’s ludicrous. Feminists are not all the same and patently at very different stages of understanding.

A lot of Catholic women are challenging the assumption that priests have to be male, so it isn't by any means universally accepted now. But the RC Church has always been slow in changing to keep up with the times.

It's not just Catholics, though. A lot of conservative evangelical churches don't allow women to be pastors. The church where I grew up wouldn't even allow women to do the reading.

@bellinisurge

I'm a shit Catholic. But I suppose I am one technically although my visits to Mass are grudging ones at Christmas and Easter. You can't unring a bell. I have been pro choice all my post puberty life - I might make a different choice but it's not for me to dictate what others should do. I'm in my fifties and it was an unpopular opinion at my Catholic school. Obviously pro contraception. I'm also pro women priests . I think it's only a matter of time before they are allowed. I'd love that to be in my lifetime. I suppose it's tied up rather clumsily with my ethnicity and I get mad as anything with lazy anti-Catholic shite I read on here. I love feeling a connection with people all over the world; even if that connection is mutual exasperation at the misogyny in the Church. My feelings don't bear close inspection.

I think that's a very honest post, @bellinisurge, and I think it's one that many Catholic women who have not rejected the whole thing lock, stock and barrel, would feel some kinship with, if not necessarily admit it -- particularly the bit about your feelings not 'bearing close inspection'.

And I while I personally have rejected the whole shooting match, I too get impatient with the lazy, kneejerk anti-Catholicism which is so frequently ill-informed anti-Irishness masquerading as a principled objection to dogma/institutional corruption.

Wasn't there a female pope or even one that gave birth? Is than an urban myth

Just as an aside my priest goeefully fully baptised our baby (two mums )and asked wife to have a role in the church
We have more chance of changing things on the inside

I don't. Whole heartedly support all my work place ideologies, policies practices, my place of work is heavy in the men up in management but I still turn up every day

I didn't support all my family's politics ideologies and beliefs yet I'm still in the family and turn up

Don't support all my churches ideologies and beliefs but turn up every Sunday

We don't tar the whole NhS because of nurse Beverly or Harold shipman , neither should we tar whole of Catholicism because of bad nuns/ priests

my place of work is heavy in the men up in management but I still turn up every day

It doesn’t exclude all women on a matter of doctrine though, does it?

Wasn't there a female pope or even one that gave birth? Is than an urban myth

Legend.

We don't tar the whole NhS because of nurse Beverly or Harold shipman , neither should we tar whole of Catholicism because of bad nuns/ priests

That's in no way an equivalent comparison, though. The sheer numbers of priests who abused children, and the sheer numbers of bishops/cardinals/other church officials who covered up for them, is in no way similar to individual criminals who operated within the NHS. And the NHS, regardless of actions of individual employees, was set up for a good cause, to give free health care to all. The Catholic Church has no such altruistic motive. Only if you believe it's the one true church does it have any point at all.

", I too get impatient with the lazy, kneejerk anti-Catholicism which is so frequently ill-informed anti-Irishness masquerading as a principled objection to dogma/institutional corruption."
Suspect that is only going to get worse with Brexit bollocks and I keep a close eye on it.

I love feeling a connection with people all over the world; even if that connection is mutual exasperation at the misogyny in the Church.

indeed.

1.5 million work in the nhs, but that pales into insignificance when compared with the 1.2 BILLION catholic’s in the world. I think abusers are attracted to positions where they can access victims and I think comparing numbers doesn’t really work.

I'm more catholic than feminist, it doesn't particularly bother me that the clergy are mostly male.
It bothers me more that they aren't allowed marry and must remain celibate. Priests have no real concept of family life ,love or sexuality. Such a lonely vocation.

I was raised Catholic but not practicing much. All the corruption, paedophiles and shit... no, not my faith

@courtwood

I'm more catholic than feminist, it doesn't particularly bother me that the clergy are mostly male. It bothers me more that they aren't allowed marry and must remain celibate. Priests have no real concept of family life ,love or sexuality. Such a lonely vocation.

They should but that give them no excuse. I know plenty of men who are virgin and doesn’t do this

i don't think the fact that the clergy cannot marry was being put forward as any kind of excuse for sexual abuse of minors, rather just a statement that a married clergy has abetter understanding of everyday life, and also for their own support personally, is to be preferred.