To think that one cannot be both a Catholic and a Feminist?

[applesauce1]

Inspired by another thread on here, my husband and I had a lively debate about this earlier. I think that a Catholic person cannot also be a Feminist for many reasons, but among these reasons, that an anti-abortion stance is an anti-woman stance.
My husband thinks that a Catholic could be pro-choice and therefore be a feminist, or that a feminist might also disagree with abortion.
He is a cultural Catholic (now atheist), and probably took this stance because he'd like to think that his mum is a feminist. In the end, we agreed to disagree. I think it is a black and white issue and he would like to think there are grey areas.
Do you think there's a way that someone can be a Catholic and also a feminist?

Because you believe in the sacraments.

But the thing is, if you are in a church like the Catholic Church, it's allaboutwhat the leaders teach and do.

Not really, as 2 consecutive bishops in my diocese have discovered, it's all about them doing what my ma says being lead by their congregation.

[quote Sarahpaula]@DioneTheDiabolist no there were no priests charged near me in the republic of Ireland. Can you actually find me a list of how many priests were charged in the republic of Ireland, total?

Seeing as you seem very sure that lots of priests were charged for child rape.[/quote]
www.bishop-accountability.org/Ireland/

93 convicted at last count up to 2019.
at least 1300 accused.

I’m both. I have a nuanced view about a lot of things and I’m open to other points of view. Unfortunately if people find out you’re religious they make a lot of assumptions.

[quote Sarahpaula]@DioneTheDiabolist no there were no priests charged near me in the republic of Ireland. Can you actually find me a list of how many priests were charged in the republic of Ireland, total?

Seeing as you seem very sure that lots of priests were charged for child rape.[/quote]
www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/former-priest-and-missionary-jailed-for-ten-years-for-abusing-18-boys-1.1457214

Former priest and missionary jailed for ten years for abusing ...www.irishtimes.com › news › crime-and-law › former-...
9 Jul 2013 - Kennedy, with a former address in Ballinahown, Co Westmeath, pleaded guilty to 27 counts of indecent assault in various areas of the country

So actually it is important how the doctrine is put into practice by the leaders, otherwise there is no point to even being Catholic in the first place.

I know, I was saying that that poster probably thinks the "application" of doctrine was incorrect/corrupt in those scenarios.

Sarahpaula

Looks like 85 by the date of that article.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-1596062

That obviously doesn't reflect how many actually abused children.

I'm really interested for toddler to explain the statement that she has no interest in women's rights.

Sorry women's issues not women's rights.

Sorry link doesn't seem to be working.

"Six reports published by the Catholic Church in Ireland have revealed there were child abuse allegations against 85 priests across the dioceses.

The audits of child protection practices - two of NI dioceses - were conducted by the Church's National Board for Safeguarding Children.

They covered the period from 1975 until the present".

The article is from 2011.

Of course you can say they are allegations, not proven but (not withstanding trying to get compensation money fraudulently, unlikely) why would they make up allegations.

Sorry another poster had an updated figure of 93 which I missed.

That's probably not counting the priests they moved to America when they discovered their abuse of children (?)

Shockingly, all Christian denominations have a lot to answer for in that they have turned a blind eye to child SA happening in their churches. The RC Church has obviously done this in the past, but they have taken steps to put this right. Same with the CofE.

As an evangelical Christian, I know that there are still churches where paedophiles are protected and victims and their families are told not to report it so as not to bring shame on the church. My siblings and I had that said to us when we were victims in the late 70s and early 80s (my F was the main perpetrator).

I thought they had moved on. They were doing DBS checks on those working with children. But a friend's DD was abused by her DH (her DD's stepfather) and the pastor told them not to report it. This was only 3 years ago. That was so disillusioning for me, to realise that nothing g had changed since my childhood.

I had made an assumption that, to be a Catholic, one would have to subscribe to all of the teachings.

@gospelsinger
This is what you are trying to do to feminists by saying that they can't be anti-abortion.

"Anti-abortion" is the wrong term to use. I meant pro-choice.
I really do find it hard to understand how a feminist wouldn't be pro-choice but I'm happy to be challenged on that.
Understand people saying "I personally wouldn't have an abortion in any circumstance, but wouldn't judge someone else", but I don't understand how someone could be anti-choice but still a feminist.
To be clear, I am saying that I don't understand how the views are compatible, not that I don't believe that they can be. Don't jump on me, please!

I have no doubt that there are still RC priests who are being protected from the authorities, but the tide has been turning in recent years.

Abuse exists in other institutions, like schools for example. You don’t refuse to engage with schools/teachers or take any exams because there have been teachers who abuse children. Horrifying but not unique to Catholicism.

Horrifying but not unique to Catholicism.

Not to the same extent.

It was endemic.

The Catholic church became a magnet and haven for child sex abusers.

Plus one would hope that of discovered by a principal etc in a school it would have been reported ... We know it was covered up by the heads in the Catholic church.

That was so disillusioning for me, to realise that nothing g had changed since my childhood.

That's very disturbing.

Religious organizations seem to be a particular risk for abuse - probably because of the element of deference to the leaders they always seem to include.

@Itisbetter

Abuse exists in other institutions, like schools for example. You don’t refuse to engage with schools/teachers or take any exams because there have been teachers who abuse children. Horrifying but not unique to Catholicism.

Is not the abuse per se that people are horrified at, I mean of course people are horrified at the abuse, but as you say abuse happens in other places as well.

It's the way that the church covered it up on such a massive scale for such a long time. It was known about all the way to the top, and there was a systematic covering up of abuse at all levels of the church.

@Mittens030869

I have no doubt that there are still RC priests who are being protected from the authorities, but the tide has been turning in recent years.

I think the tide has been turning in Europe recently but cases are only just coming to light in Latin America which have been known about for many years (five priests were suspended in Bogota Columbia earlier this year on historic charges of sex abuse for example). There is absolutely no excuse for this. I remember the high incidence of clerical sexual abuse cases in Latin America being opennly discussed in the late 1990s early 2000s when the sexual abuse scandal was being investigated here in Europe. And yet the same mistakes were made.

@Itisbetter

It’s a bit like saying you can’t be feminist if you are British because sexism exists in Britain. Total nonsense. Of course you can be a feminist in an imperfect world, all feminists are.

Total nonsense. The Catholic church is an organisation people choose to support and participate in. You don't choose to participate in being British, if you are born in Britain you are British.

Total nonsense. The Catholic church is an organisation people choose to support and participate in.

But the people who make a choice to support and participate in it are usually doing so because they think it means something more than 'the club I go to on a Sunday'. You can't choose to stop believing in fundamental religious beliefs, any more than an atheist could choose to start believing in them.

Not everything humans do can be understood as a consumer choice. There are forces stronger than brand loyalty.

Religious organizations seem to be a particular risk for abuse - probably because of the element of deference to the leaders they always seem to include.

I don't think it's so much that as that too many people won't take the word of a child over that of an adult, especially a respected adult, particularly a man. It's also the case that it's a very uncomfortable subject and they prefer to bury it under the carpet than to bring it into the open.

It's also misogyny. This pastor told my friend that she was to blame because she hadn't been a good enough wife. (Tragically, my DM thinks this about herself.)