To think that one cannot be both a Catholic and a Feminist?

[applesauce1]

Inspired by another thread on here, my husband and I had a lively debate about this earlier. I think that a Catholic person cannot also be a Feminist for many reasons, but among these reasons, that an anti-abortion stance is an anti-woman stance.
My husband thinks that a Catholic could be pro-choice and therefore be a feminist, or that a feminist might also disagree with abortion.
He is a cultural Catholic (now atheist), and probably took this stance because he'd like to think that his mum is a feminist. In the end, we agreed to disagree. I think it is a black and white issue and he would like to think there are grey areas.
Do you think there's a way that someone can be a Catholic and also a feminist?

I only believe in feminist dinosaurs. And none of that third wave choosy-choice nonsense, proper feminist ones.

I think you're confusing anti-abortion and anti-choice very different things. Very possible to be anti-abortion and feminist.

Dinosaurs?

Well, all Italian Catholic (and otherwise) study them in Science lessons.

But they don't study God creating the world in 6 days and going to IKEA on Sunday in their RE lessons because they know that's a story.

I don't think so. I don't think supporting and validating an organisation that is inherently anti women can ever align with being a feminist.

A lot of prejudisms that Christians used to hold are fading. So it is possible for a catholic to be pro abortion. Or for a atheist feminist to be anti-abortion.

A lot of Christian's are believed to be anti-LGBT too. But the church I go to is very supportive of LGBT and gay couples/trans people have been warmly welcomed, treated equally and not been told that they are wrong or sinful. A lot of Christian's are beginning to accept that some passages of the bible have had their meanings twisted to fit in with olden day society's belief system.

I sometimes find on MN that its posters who aren't Catholic or that don't know a lot about it that are most concerned with Catholics not doing Catholicism right.

@Slightlybrwnbanana are you telling me you only started to believe in them/evolution when the pope said it was ok? Or is it possible to have decided evolution makes sense and still be a catholic prior to being told it was ok?

@implantsandaDyson

I sometimes find on MN that its posters who aren't Catholic or that don't know a lot about it that are most concerned with Catholics not doing Catholicism right.

Yep I see this in relation to most religions.

@Dione That's a very fair point. I have absolutely no authority to say who is and isn't a feminist. I suppose I struggled to see how two (in my initial perception) contradictory constructs could fit together but I can see that I had a very erroneous understanding of what being a Catholic looks like. Really appreciate the feedback on this!

My husband says he's done with the debate now, even though I've come back to him with new views, because it's bedtime... Thank you for all of the replies!

I suppose everyone will have their own definition of a feminist. A woman can think that abortion is morally wrong (in cases where it isn't necessary for the mother's survival) and yet still agree with many so-called feminist principles.

This kind of thing is why some women (myself included) don't jump at the chance of identifying as feminist.

I think there's two things.

If you are culturally Catholic then it's not so much about the religion. There's a lot of people who have Irish/ Italian parents where I live in England and it's a part of their identity IYSWIM. The RC people I know don't believe it much but the traditions etc are all familiar and weddings etc it's a go to type thing.

For people who aren't RC and choose it out of all the religions to join, and with their stance on abortion contraception homosexuality etc etc I don't think it's compatible, no.

I’m Catholic and believe myself to be feminist. I am pro choice but not to term - although recognise that is an extremely rare scenario. I also understand the argument that allowing a differentiation of termination deadlines for healthy or potentially disabled foetus might well be disability discrimination. I think the Abortion Act needs reform; nobody adheres to it anyway.

I am very pro effective, fee, readily available contraception and think too many people don’t think carefully enough before having children. I believe passionately that every child should be planned and wanted.

'A woman can think that abortion is morally wrong (in cases where it isn't necessary for the mother's survival) and yet still agree with many so-called feminist principles.'

Which 'so called' principles are those?

@implantsandaDyson

I sometimes find on MN that its posters who aren't Catholic or that don't know a lot about it that are most concerned with Catholics not doing Catholicism right.

So true. Oh, my ex landlord was the campest gay man I ever met, and he's also a member of the Cathedral's brotherhood, so they don't seem to have a problem with each other either.

Fascinating discussion. Religion fulfils many needs in people's lives. It can help to bring a sense of peace, of meaning, of coming together as a community. I don't think that everyone who follows a religion believes in every part of it.

I think that anyway Catholicism has pros and cons when it comes to feminism. Probably more cons than not but it isn't all one way.

Pros
Motherhood is celebrated as being very valuable and important
The sex industry and porn is considered wrong
Surrogacy is considered wrong
They know how to define what a woman is and would support single sex spaces.

Cons
Patriarchal structure - all the priests are male
Mary being a virgin
Anti contraception
Anti abortion (though if you believe life begins at conception as most catholics do you will not consider this to be against feminism)

There is more to Catholic culture than whether you are pro-life. That is a very small part of Catholic doctrine.

[quote Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov]@Slightlybrwnbanana are you telling me you only started to believe in them/evolution when the pope said it was ok? Or is it possible to have decided evolution makes sense and still be a catholic prior to being told it was ok?[/quote]
I'm not a catholic so I don't think most of your question applies to me! I was just pointing out that Catholics "believe" in dinosaurs

I think there can be some conflicting ideas in Catholicism and feminism, or any organised religion really. Personally, I have a number of issues with the Catholic Church which stem mainly from my feminist beliefs. However, I would class myself Christian (C of E) and a feminist, despite knowing that some Christian beliefs conflict with feminism beliefs. However, I don’t subscribe to every belief within the Church of England. I wouldn’t class myself as devout though so that probably helps with that issue.

For me, my religion is for the big things I can’t answer. I like to believe God created the earth (I believe he created dinosaurs before humans) because the idea that we’re just here by random chance is quite depressing to me. Although I appreciate that some people love the random chance of that. I like the idea that people don’t get to be horrible on earth without punishment. I like the idea that we get to see our loved ones again when they have died. I like the idea that there’s more to life than working towards retirement, then you die. I like that religion provides a community for whenever you need it and for almost wherever you are (obviously some places don’t accept other religions). However, I can recognise that some elements of religion aren’t compatible with elements of trying to improve the world for women and girls. I recognise misogyny in religious practices and speak out against those practices whilst still holding onto my beliefs for the bigger picture.

I'm assuming he's Irish? In which case you can technically be both a catholic and a feminist. Most Irish people are signed up to Catholicism before they can crawl so have no choice in the matter - and even if lapsed technically once you're "in" there's no getting out of the Catholic Church. A huge amount of cultural Catholics would identify more strongly with feminism than religion. It's quite annoying they won't go one step further and put an end to the cultural element of it with their own DC, but alas the indoctrination continues for no good reason!

Implants on the thread the op mentions the people who are most unhappy about it are lapsed Catholics.

That seems to be a pattern on here tbh- I was raised RC but I' an atheist.

It's a mistake to dismiss critics as ignorant.

@implantsandaDyson

I sometimes find on MN that its posters who aren't Catholic or that don't know a lot about it that are most concerned with Catholics not doing Catholicism right.

Yes, I especially enjoy the ones who balance “it is shocking and awful that Catholics think XYZ!” with “it is shocking and awful that these Catholics on here don’t think XYZ”, like we have somehow disappointed them by not quite being awful enough.

I’m Catholic and I am anti-abortion but pro-choice. I think women should of course have the option but I would never choose it myself and it does sadden me that lots of women use it so readily. I don’t think that means I can’t be a feminist. Although, of course, it depends on your definition of feminist!

I dont think you can be Catholic and a feminist. Supporting the Catholic Church means you're supporting and paying into an ideology which doesn't allow a female pope, tells people abortion is a sin, sex outside if marriage is a sin etc.

I'm a Catholic and a feminist. I voted for the abortion act and marriage equality my DD is on the path growing to be a strong feminist.
Being Catholic in Ireland has changed lots.
I found the church comforting when my DM died. I went a few times since just to clear my head it is more like meditation.
This may be outing our priest was a wild fella on a bad path until he picked up a bible and turned his life around he is very socially liberal.