To think that one cannot be both a Catholic and a Feminist?

[applesauce1]

Inspired by another thread on here, my husband and I had a lively debate about this earlier. I think that a Catholic person cannot also be a Feminist for many reasons, but among these reasons, that an anti-abortion stance is an anti-woman stance.
My husband thinks that a Catholic could be pro-choice and therefore be a feminist, or that a feminist might also disagree with abortion.
He is a cultural Catholic (now atheist), and probably took this stance because he'd like to think that his mum is a feminist. In the end, we agreed to disagree. I think it is a black and white issue and he would like to think there are grey areas.
Do you think there's a way that someone can be a Catholic and also a feminist?

I’m catholic. I’ve had an abortion. I’m still a catholic.

‘grin what exactly do you think it means that you cannot leave??? They don’t lock you in and force you to reconciliation.grin‘

I don’t know why you think it is amusing. There are many people, particularly abuse victims, who wish to be able to formally leave and cannot. They have gone through various disputes with the church over it. It matters to people that they cannot end membership.

Totally agree, that’s why I’m no longer a practicing Catholic and decided to practice in the Episcopal faith for the last 10 years.

It is the act of baptism that makes you a Catholic.

'But that isn’t the case. The church removed the right to leave the church in 2006.

You may believe that not believing makes someone not a Catholic. That is not the belief of either the Catholic Church or people who want to formally leave and are no longer allowed to. All you are allowed to do is register a statement that you wish to leave.'

Erm... ???

I think there’s a weird disconnect in your thinking. @Stripesnomore If you don’t believe in god or don’t want to be part of a church why would you give anyone the power to allow or disallow you from carrying on your life as normal? a priests “power” such as it is is entirely dependent on you believing in his position.

@applesauce1 yeah I know. It was all a bit simplistic particularly in portraying a world of gender (and, err, pay) equality that doesn't exist. I'm just trying to work out how I can see it differently from how I do. Which is that I struggle with prioritising work over everything else, because it no longer has the same hold over my mind whilst fory husband, because he didn't take three maternity leaves, nothing has changed. I also very much doubt its true that they have done everything themselves, they will have nannies, which is fine, but I hate people pretending they don't. It still all comes down to money, because that is what enables everything. Very easy saying you're feminist because you work and have kids, but for most women with more than three kids, that's not possible.

It’s not my thinking.

It’s the thinking of people who want to formally leave the Catholic Church and are not allowed to do so.

I suppose if you've done the things that make you RC when a baby/ child then you are a member of the church and I suppose it makes sense that just saying I don't believe and I'm an atheist now or whatever doesn't affect how you are viewed from the organisational/ spiritual POV...

that's something to chew over.

They don’t need permission or to “de-register” catholic’s retain their freedom just like people from other faiths.

Perhaps this may help you understand their perspective:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/how-do-you-become-formally-not-a-catholic-you-take-the-law-into-your-own-hands

I don't think you get to dictate who is and isn't a feminist. What makes you think you can?

I don't agree with abortion and I'm a feminist.

Im also (lax) catholic and a feminist.

Someone can personally feel they would not have an abortion or use contraception or have sex outside of marriage and still be a feminist.

If they believe other women should not have the choice to do those things, they are not a feminist.

I don’t think you can be a literal feminist or a literal believer in any of the Abrahamic religions but if you can interpret them in a way to eek feminist principles out of them I guess.

But that just proves morality is relative so what then is the point of religion?

Sorry, and not or

Religion is primarily about the supernatural not morality.

People who want to leave an institution insisting on that institution providing a process that helps them feel heard is fairly silly. Just stop going and say you are whatever you feel you are. There is no need to ask permission for how you worship or if you do at all.

Well most institutions don’t claim to have left an indelible mark on your infant soul, or put records of your membership in a national archive for all time.

Such actions are probably going to lead to stronger feelings than leaving the local allotment club.

My aunt is a "professional" feminist. She's also a Catholic, each of these aspects have influenced the other. I get that some women may not be able to square the principles, but many do.

Well most institutions don’t claim to have left an indelible mark on your infant soul, or put records of your membership in a national archive for all time. but if you don’t believe then claims to have marked your soul are not really important. I have a birth certificate and a marriage certificate that are recorded for the foreseeable as are my medical records I don’t think that is particularly unbearably intrusive.

Such actions are probably going to lead to stronger feelings than leaving the local allotment club. I think how people “feel” is their business.

Well no it makes sense. The leaving thing.

I suppose then I'm RC. Like I say makes sense just not thought of it like that before. Because it's all so long ago, and I'm not a cultural Catholic, so it's a bit different.

Interesting. Yes makes sense though with 2 secs of thought!

For me it was about a host of stuff going way back. No condoms in Africa when aids was getting going was an early thing that I just thought. Well that's terrible.

‘I think how people “feel” is their business.‘

And yet here you are on the internet talking about how silly their feelings all are.

I am interested in how people feel about religion, and about feminism. If you aren’t interested then you don’t have to discuss it.

‘For me it was about a host of stuff going way back. No condoms in Africa when aids was getting going was an early thing that I just thought. Well that's terrible.‘

Yes, this was particularly terrible, and tied to the rape of virgins in the belief that it could cure AIDS. There are so many times Africa, particularly sub Saharan Africa has been let down by both the Catholic Church and the evangelical churches.

Look at the killing of gay people, still supported in African countries by Western churches, and it is still a playground for bizarre fringe Western missionaries wanting to exorcise people.

Of course there are grey areas! Human beings are tremendously multifaceted and can hold multiple opposing views at once. I expect there are many catholic feminists, just as there are many environmentalists who eat meat, or scientists who check their horoscopes.

I was telling you how I felt about it @Stripesnomore I think the problem is I don’t agree with you?