What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

Generally boy’s behaviour is excused much more than girls, even from a very early age.

The old boys will be boys bullshit is trotted out as an excuse for behaviour that would be clamped down on if a girl did it.

I suspect confirmation bias plays a part. I have no doubt there are difficult girls too.

Maybe more of our girls are taught to be meek and people pleasers from an early age whereas boys will be boys. My son is nearly 3 and is more rough and tumble with less of an attention span than his sister at that age. I think it's probably because of his personality rather than sex though.

But surely, if it's Boys' behaviour being complained about, surely that means they're NOT getting away with it?

I have never put up with bad behaviour from my two boys. 'Boys will be boys' is a pathetic excuse for poor behaviour.

However, DS1 has Asperger's and really struggled to display behaviour appropriate to any given situation for a long while. He just didn't pick up on the social cues, and displayed sensory seeking behaviours. I understand that girls 'mask' these difficulties more, so they might seem better behaved on the face of it.

We’re doing nothing wrong with our boys. The majority are naturally more boisterous and curious. I know many people love to say there is no difference between the sexes but there are obvious differences!

There’s an interesting book called Raising Boys that you might want to read.
IMO boys naturally have a lot of energy and want to run, play, explore. School suppresses their natural instinct- they have to sit and concentrate for long periods of time. They also mature later and fine motor (needed for writing) is later.
I say this as a mum to DS8 who is luckily doing well at school and no behavioural issues.

As a teacher (& mum to a boy) I think it’s a mix of confirmation bias (I’ve heard parents remark on a mixed group running around with “look how much energy the boys have!”) and lower expectations (we tend to criticise girls who act in a ‘non-girly’ way more than we do with boys). There are plenty of girls with behaviour issues though, and plenty of sensible boys.

^ yup this.

The mum of a very boisterous and possibly slightly adhd / asd boy I've known from babyhood was being told "oh it's just boys" and "boys will be boys" from his earliest preschool attendance around age 3/4. Mum was a ta herself in the past and had been expressing concern.

Teachers think they're reassuring a parent but actually they're perpetuating the issue or missing out on some key behaviour that perhaps could do with some supportive early intervention.

Cue hitting y1, no children want to go to the child's parties as he's merrily pushed and hit them all in rec, he's on behaviour charts and can only attend after school clubs if mum goes too.

But obviously it happens earlier also, my large second boy was regularly referred to as a bruiser as a new born which I had to challenge regularly. He's very gentle and loves to sit and paint and draw. But I've had to deal firmly with normal toddler attempts to bite and hit that might be otherwise dismissed.

I think boys need more gentle parenting and socialisation input to counter balance the social gender stereotyping around them. I remember my eldest had no male friends at nursery as he liked to play house with 3 girls and the boys in his cohort preferred running and pushing.

Yanbu, something isn't going right. In my DD's primary school the boys are just out hand. It is not so much violence, but an inability to self-regulate behaviour and emotion.

They run around during class. They throw books. They open up the PE cupboard and take out the equipment (set aside for the class due to covid) and lob balls around. They run of screaming and yelling out of the classroom door into the playground. They chat to their mates. They poke, scratch and distract the girls and steal the equipment of the calmer girls they are partnered with. They talk back to the teacher. They write rude words on the white board. More than half the boys in class are like this. DD is in a school with 3 classes per year, which get mixed up, so it isn't just an unlucky intake

I think, it is lack of clear discipline at home, lack of clear discipline at school, and the influence of online games and TV programs that are available all the time, showing bad behaviour and violence . And children just being spoiled and there being no expectation that they have to behave and work. Life gives them so much, and is so permissive. It affects girls too, but is less obvious and many girls are still brought up with an expectation that they should "behave nicely".

Children need boundaries and consequences and school and home simply arent providing them.

In general boys mature later than girls therefore their behaviour when compared to girls of a similar age is less favourable. For this reason they suffer much more in class and are more coiled spring than the girls. This coupled with societal expectations and norms breeds a big difference.

Boys will be boys and girls will be women.

Yup this to sexnotgender's comment.

The boys with parents who have clear boundaries along the lines of yes to running around a lot, no to rough play are fine, IME. The ones who expect or encourage boisterous, rough play because ‘boys have more energy’ are the problem. I have two dds and they need a lot of exercise to burn off energy, but I still have an absolute rule that play can’t be hurting or annoying anyone, or likely to do so. On play dates or at the playground, mums of girls tend to have the same rule. Mums of boys are more likely to allow things I wouldn’t. Dads tend to overall allow rougher play, for both sexes, interestingly. Though some football dads are hugely competitive, in a way which encourages being horrible to weaker players, which is a shame and which may explain some of the awful primary school playground behaviour around football.

Is your title/question about your own boys or about boys in general?

As others have said, it all comes down to expectations. Many adults have different expectations for girls' and boys' behaviour. Things that are unacceptable when girls do them are ignored, tolerated or even encouraged for boys. Most people have higher expectations for girls. Sexism starts at the very beginning. (NB: these are generalisations so please don't take them personally)

So if you're asking about your own boys then ask yourself whether you would accept their behaviour from daughters and act accordingly. This doesn't mean that your boys have to be silent ghosts but if you feel you would tell a daughter to stop/sit down/be quiet/find something quiet to do then maybe you should be saying that to your sons.

All children should be encouraged to be considerate of others and to be aware of their behaviour and how to moderate it. There is a time for running wild but parents who don't teach their children when to be calm are doing the children a disservice.

There's another thread on here today about a well behaved girl who has been put at a table full of rowdy boys to 'calm' them.

I think it’s worth pointing out there is very little evidence for significant physical differences pre-puberty. If boys develop later it’s more likely to do with societal influences than innate difference.

As a mum of 4 boys I don't always think the school day gives them enough opportunity to run and let off energy. Boys need walking every day just like big dogs and if you dont get them out they will act up like big dogs would.
I used to particularly hate the teachers who would keep badly behaved boys in at break. Madness.

@Mummyoflittledragon

In general boys mature later than girls therefore their behaviour when compared to girls of a similar age is less favourable. For this reason they suffer much more in class and are more coiled spring than the girls. This coupled with societal expectations and norms breeds a big difference.

I don't agree. I think there are some slight developmental differences between girls and boys (as born out by the vastly higher percentage of boys in sen schools) but it's not a done deal on all boys and girls.

My eldest boy was always extremely emotionally and socially mature from a young age.

I've known many girls who aren't too.

Boys need walking every day just like big dogs So do girls!!!! But yes, I agree that missing playtime isn’t good when all children need the chance to let off steam. I tend to make them miss a couple of minutes for bad behaviour, never their whole break.

secondaccount
Some girls need this too. My dd has more energy than any girl I’ve ever come across and more than any boy albeit that is more limited knowledge. She’s 12 so a lot of girls. When she was little it was all about making sure she had had enough exercise.

I think its a mixture of people excusing naughtiness from boys more, and the education system sometimes being too formal too soon.
This then means that (some) boys are seen as disruptive when really they are just not developmentally ready to do certain things as early as (some) girls are.

I'm an ex early years teacher and a mum of 2 boys - DS1 is very boisterous/loud and the type of DC that gets told "typical boy" a lot (luckily he's never been a hitter, more a runner and shouter). Anyways, we spend a lot of time outside/doing sport to get rid of excess energy and he's been ok behaviour wise in Reception.

My sons in year 2, it's the girls in his class who cause all the problems, one of the girls punched another girl in the forehead, her mum just brushed it off as her daughter was used to playing with boys so was more boisterous, that annoyed me when I heard that coment as non of the boys in my sons class treat the other children the way she does.

@Feelingconfused2020 I hope you’re joking .

I’m a mother of 2 boys and a teacher.. My boys couldn’t be more different from each other if they tried - and the boys (and girls) I have taught are the same. The 3 most challenging children in my Y5 class this year are without doubt girls. Two of them are very aggressive.

Raising children has changed completely - parents (as a total generalisation) are much less keen to instil discipline, much less likely to say no, much more keen to excuse bad behaviour, much too reliant on electronic babysitters, much too prepared to allow kids to do very little exercise, and much too lax about the shockingly inappropriate games and programmes that their children watch. It’s raising a generation of confused, aggressive and mixed up children and it’s desperately sad.

The general dislike of boys driven by sites like this certainly doesn’t help.

The average boy seems to be more physical and boisterous. You could also argue they are not ready for structured learning at 4 (most countries start later). That said there's variances and some boys are quiet and some girls are loud! My dd certainly comes into the loud boisterous category but didn't do her any harm. She's a military officer!

I've often joked about the boys need walking like dogs myself; I teach in an sen school and it's 95% boys and yes, exercise is really important.

But girls need it too.

There's a very complex mix of nature AND nurture.

You'll have girls and boys at both ends of the spectrum of high energy and ability to concentrate.

The issue is assuming the stereotypes which perpetuates the issues and makes it harder for the girl who can't concentrate and has high energy (you're not a proper girl) and actually sometimes the boy who is very quiet and calm and a bookworm too (you're a wuss.)

But especially for the boys who can't concentrate and have high energy, to just accept that it's the norm for a boy. It's not. And the education system should and must be accommodating them better.

(We get a lot of those boys who've been let down horribly.)

Such an interesting question, OP!

I have 3 girls. Whenever their lives have been made a misery at school - thankfully not too often over the years - it's always boys who've been the perpetrators.

Some are, frankly, total shits. It is ALL in the upbringing.
My sister has 3 boys. She's a great, fun, and very fair mum, but slightly on the strict side, as his her husband. Their boys are delightful.
Chances are, a boy raised too softly will turn out to be a shit.
I work in a school. When on playground duty, I lose count of the number of wee girls complaining about boys' behaviour towards them.
In class, it is generally boy behaviour that is worse (even in NT kids).
There is one lad who behaves badly. When the teacher raised it with his parents, they said they didn't believe in the punitive approach.
Well, go figure ...