What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

I think with a lot of boys who are badly behaved (and girls too), it is lax parenting and lack of father/male role model.

I dismiss anyone mentally who excuses a boy's poor behaviour with a 'boys will be boys' comment. Apologetic misogynistic twaddle. Explains why grown up women constantly excuse men's behaviour when it really isn't on because how could the poor wee darlings know any better.

As for primary schools and boys, we have difficult girls and boys at school. But with exceptions, boys are more likely to outwardly display ASD and/or ADHD symptoms that can causes issues in classrooms/at playtimes. Broken home issues often frequently have boys acting out more openly than girls as well in primary schools. Domestic violence issues, especially after lockdown, has caused some boys to outwardly act out.

Girls can and do behave badly, too. But Girls are more likely to use their words to cause issues more stealthily in primary school.

@022828MAN

I was wondering the same thing recently. My DD is 3 and is being bothered, let's say, by a boy at her nursery. He's told her he's going to 'punch her in the face' and on Wednesday he followed through with his threat and hit her twice. She now has a bruise on her cheek. The nursery are "dealing with it" apparently - they've got an additional member of staff in the classroom to monitor this boy, but obviously I am hurt by his behaviour. We also have two different families we're friends with who both have an older son and younger daughter. The two boys run riot, are grabby, pushy, stroppy and won't ever share or play kindly. Knowing these two families fairly well, we have observed that they just don't discipline their boys at all. It's very strange.

This boy is clearly not being shown how to behave by his parent/s. Completely inexcusable.

At DS's toddler group years ago, a big, older boy with a head like a bullet was a nightmare...Being rough with the little ones.
His mum just sat there, feebly.

I don't know but mine behave

I have two boys and whilst I agree there is a lot of boys will boys at play and probably some nature diffferences too - the flip side is I dont necessarily think that girl nuture is right either. I think there are some girls that are overly cossetted and not allowed to climb or run and whose parents over react if a boy very lightly brushes past or falls over near the girl. They sort of swoop in to protect them from normal life. My mum was like that. Im not talking about deliberate pushing or manic behaviour. Just clumsy toddler falling down or wobbling.

@suspiciousbutdelicious

I think with a lot of boys who are badly behaved (and girls too), it is lax parenting and lack of father/male role model.

Boys especially need a good, male role model in their lives.

It isn't the cool thing to say, though.

Women cannot understand what it is like to be a man, and there are a tragic number of ''Under fathered'' boys around.

Mmm interesting thread. From my school memories and speaking to a lot of my f&f who are teachers, I would be inclined to think that girls actually get away with more bad behaviour because it tends to be ‘under the radar’. There’s no doubt teachers gender stereotype, but even the ones I know who try to be very careful about this have said there are differences from a young age with the way kids interact. Boys are more likely to be obviously disruptive, but girls can be just as unpleasant is what they all say. I have young primary dc and of the parents I know who have had any ‘problems’ at school it’s been with girls being unkind and dominating to each other. I really don’t think you can generalise though.

Not in our school, it’s the girls that are the problem in both my son and daughters classes.

If it's parenting, do parents of girls generally do a better job than parents of boys?

@Bickles

There’s an interesting book called Raising Boys that you might want to read. IMO boys naturally have a lot of energy and want to run, play, explore. School suppresses their natural instinct- they have to sit and concentrate for long periods of time. They also mature later and fine motor (needed for writing) is later. I say this as a mum to DS8 who is luckily doing well at school and no behavioural issues.

I’ve read that book and also raising girls both by Steve Biddulph. Both are great.

There is a difference between boys and girls and especially how they are raised and nurtured and I think as a society we’re leaning towards pushing the issue that there isn’t.

This in no way excuses bad behaviour but both sexes do need a slightly different approach and understanding.

On the other hand my mil treated all your sons like mini kings and husbands and expected the young females in the family to serve them. Gave me the rage.

Nothing wrong with my boy- don't include me in your "our".

I was asking generally . The majority of boys (including yours) probably behave perfectly well. But it’s interesting that when other parents or teachers identify bad behaviour, it’s mostly boys involved.

I’ve observed - on here and in real life - that people think boys HAVE to have computer games / consoles because otherwise they will have no friends. There’s less pressure for girls (who are more pressured over TikTok). Maybe that’s part of what causes a difference in behaviour?

Interesting comment – maybe some of it (at least later on) is down to differences in rules around screen time/computer games and this is part of the problem.

Such an interesting question, OP!

Yes, that’s why I asked it! No real issues yet here (DC behave in accordance with age-appropriate expectations) but it’s good to be prepared for the future.

I remember picking my ds up from a party when he was in year six . The boys were wrestling on the floor...the girls were standing round talking to each other.

I see parents and teachers constantly telling boys off. Any physical violence at my dcs school was an automatic detention.

I have a,very hippy woo type friend with an artistic husband. She has boys...I assumed they'd grow up sensitive and creative quiet types. Bumped into her at the park and she said exasperated "all they want to do is fight"

@OhNoItsMonday

If it's parenting, do parents of girls generally do a better job than parents of boys?

Boys especially need a good, male role model in their lives

It isn't the cool thing to say, though

Women cannot understand what it is like to be a man, and there are a tragic number of ''Under fathered'' boys around

I agree with this in part but I also know SP mothers who have raised wonderful sons. Kids do great with even one invested parent.

Boys generally mature later than girls and school can show this up, with girls more able to conform and boys still tantruming when expectation are too high for sitting still etc. Also girls are generally more predisposed to communication by start of school.

@Bickles

There’s an interesting book called Raising Boys that you might want to read. IMO boys naturally have a lot of energy and want to run, play, explore. School suppresses their natural instinct- they have to sit and concentrate for long periods of time. They also mature later and fine motor (needed for writing) is later. I say this as a mum to DS8 who is luckily doing well at school and no behavioural issues.

I've got the girl version of this book which is excellent on the whole.

I've got 2 adult sons. We never bought into the "boys will be boys", "boys are boisterous", "boys are like dogs and need exercise every day" bull shit. Our boys were/are very well behaved. They both went through school, right up to the end of A levels, without so much as a behaviour slip or being kept in at break time.

The boys will be boys line is such nonsense,

That said, the way boys and girls operate is very different at different stages of their development. You are less likely to see girls displaying the physical disruption capable by some boys. Equally, the behaviour of some girls particularly during teenage years, with isolation of peers, bitchiness etc is not something you tend to see with boys.

@OhNoItsMonday

Nothing wrong with my boy- don't include me in your "our".

I was asking generally . The majority of boys (including yours) probably behave perfectly well. But it’s interesting that when other parents or teachers identify bad behaviour, it’s mostly boys involved.

I’ve observed - on here and in real life - that people think boys HAVE to have computer games / consoles because otherwise they will have no friends. There’s less pressure for girls (who are more pressured over TikTok). Maybe that’s part of what causes a difference in behaviour?

Interesting comment – maybe some of it (at least later on) is down to differences in rules around screen time/computer games and this is part of the problem.

Such an interesting question, OP!

Yes, that’s why I asked it! No real issues yet here (DC behave in accordance with age-appropriate expectations) but it’s good to be prepared for the future.

I really recommend you read ‘raising boys’ by Steve Biddulph. Such a great book

Yup.

"Boys will be boys" attitude means they get away with volume/violence/aggressive play way more than girls are allowed to.

And teaching them to be thoughtful/gentle would often get them called "girly" etc.

Poor things can't win.

Very interesting thread OP.

Great timing too to give an insight. I have a DD and today she went to a party with about 5 boys and 5 girls.

I arrived early for pickup to have a chat with the party girls parents. All 5 girls sitting nicely eating the party food. The boys all sitting either under the table or not properly in their seats, food everywhere where they were and fighting/pushing and throwing things at each other. It ended in tears from the boys who seemed unable to cope. The same behaviour at school.

Having said that, there are many boys at the school who take rules seriously and will not play with the unruly boys. They have been shunned into the naughty boys group. They too are kept in at lunchtime often which is a terrible idea.

@Grilledaubergines

The boys will be boys line is such nonsense,

That said, the way boys and girls operate is very different at different stages of their development. You are less likely to see girls displaying the physical disruption capable by some boys. Equally, the behaviour of some girls particularly during teenage years, with isolation of peers, bitchiness etc is not something you tend to see with boys.

Absolutely. When girls reach 13 they can’t be wicked to each other. This is the reason my dds won’t be allowed SM or mobiles till much later on

My DD10 has been distracted and harassed by boys at school recently and her friend's mum has said it's normal boys' behaviour. I don't accept that as a secondary teacher and have spoken to the school. I can't bear the phrase 'boys will be boys'.

I think there's a much bigger gap between what teachers tolerate and what parents tolerate when it comes to behaviour on starting school, girls and boys. The good news is that within a term or so most children pull themselves up to a new standard of behaviour - not interrupting, using words more, being still and listening / concentrating more, and doing something that's asked of them first time, every time.

I read somewhere that if you let something go with a typical 4 year old, you will then have to reinforce it 8 times for girls and up to 20 times for boys before you are back to the place you were in before you let the behaviour go, so a lot of parents aren't consistent enough because they find it exhausting. It's our job though in schools so the majority of children learn to behave and then you can set about finding out what the outliers are struggling with

I noticed tremendously the difference in parental response when I stood on the nursery steps with my eldest who is a girl compared to standing there three years later with a boy. The boys were permitted to run riot in a way I could not comprehend. I controlled my son in the same way I controlled my daughter and other parents just didn’t.

The boys will be boys, fond eye roll, kid out of control thing drives me crazy.

My daughter is in year 1 & has experienced some low level bullying from boys. Teasing, pushing her over (cut knees), pinning her down, hitting her. When she tells the lunchtime supervisor she's always told to 'go and play somewhere else.' Despite these boys seeking her out to annoy her. It guts me that it's always the girl that has to give.

Also play fighting/wrestling/hard tag is order of the day at break time, I've seen kids literally dragging each other along the floor and punching each other in the nuts and the supervisors do nothing. In my day I would have been scolded, kept in next break, and my Mum would have known before I'd even been collected. When I was at school boys would be off playing football too, not annoying the girls. I had the opportunity to go and see break time and it was just so, so different.

I tell my daughter not to accept it, to go and tell a teacher and that eventually they will get so fed up of being bothered they'll have to deal with it. I've only had to ring in once after my daughter was pushed into a play house then had 4 boys pile/lay on top of her and refuse to let her out. She was 4, said she couldn't breathe and was distraught. That's not 'boys being boys' in my opinion.