What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

It’s always been the case that boys when preschool, primary school, are a bit more lively than girls, and I think this is sometimes labelled as bad behaviour, but I think it’s just a case of them being more fearless and wanting to impress their peers, but not behaving maliciously. The saying is: boys are little devils and grow up into angelic teens, girls are little angels but grow up into teen devils. And it’s very true.

Sorry I didn't read the whole tread...

We expect our children to go to school, sit down, concentrate and conform from the age of 4/5! When all they want to do is run around and play.

@OhNoItsMonday

If it's parenting, do parents of girls generally do a better job than parents of boys?

I don't think the parents of girls are just better and try harder than the parents of boys (which is what some of the comments here seem to suggest!) - it's unlikely that people who are too lazy or passive to discipline their sons are somehow really on it with their daughters - but I think they have an easier job obtaining compliant behaviour because the whole world is trying to tell girls to be quiet, good, sit still, that they should be interested in hair and clothes and sitting quietly and chatting, etc., so that message is reinforced for parents without much effort. If you want to give your boy anything other than the message that he should be loud, run around and be aggressive then mainstream culture is actively working against you. It's like swimming upstream rather than swimming downstream.

I am a TA in a primary school and actually find the snide manipulative quietly controlling behaviour of some of the girls far harder to deal with than the energetic boys. Boys are generally more hands on and verbal in their behaviour (eg pysical fighting!!) therefore they always get into trouble. However their diagreements are usually done and trusted quite quickly. Girls hold grudges and manipulate each other and sometimes this can go on for days. Give me a class of boys over girls anyday. When my dd was small I volunteered at brownies - I can honestly say it wasnt particularly enjoyable I spent so much time dealing with upset little girls because they were always being mean to each other but sneakily. A couple of years later when my son became a cub and they asked me to volunteeer it was a completely different dynamic. Very very noisy very very full on but happy kids full of energy and the girls although not particularly energetic and boyish just seemed so much more grounded and there was not one iota of "she said this .... she said that". I also think sometimes your own personality dictates how you deal with the different behaviours, A colleague of mineis brilliant at dealing with the girls emotional dramas but has absolutely no patience in dealing with the energetic boys.

Perhaps encouraging more male teachers and TAs would help also modelling calm behaviour from boys

When my DD was around 2.5, she and her male best friend of the same age went to a toddler music group. For the first few sessions, they both ran riot, despite parental best efforts. The class teacher repeatedly made efforts to bring DD into the circle, including going and fetching her if she was running around. She got DD involved in the activities, gave her positive reinforcement/ little jobs to do, etc. Eventually, DD ended up participating in and enjoying the class. She got a lot of praise for being well-behaved, a “little angel”, etc.

The little boy? The teacher told his mum to read “Raising Boys”, which supposedly would explain to her that her son’s behaviour was normal because boys experience a testosterone surge around age 3 or 4. The mum ended up taking her son out of the class because she concluded that he was too much of a “real boysy boy” to enjoy indoor activities.

@Bromley4ever

Perhaps encouraging more male teachers and TAs would help also modelling calm behaviour from boys

They have tried to get more male teachers into primary schools, though, with quite limited success - it's hard to know what to do to change it? And then those men tend to have the 'glass escalator' thing, get promoted quickly and so end up with less classroom time!

Hmmm, interesting one. I have 4 boys ( and 1 baby girl so can’t comment on difference between them yet.

Mine are all pretty gentle and relatively calm as are H and I so they’ve obviously got our temperaments there.

Life is much easier if we get out and about during non school days but I’m the same and I’m a grown woman so I’m not sure I buy into the ‘boys need to be run’ and I definitely don’t agree with ‘boys will be boys’ that’s lazy BS from a patriarchal society to excise shit behaviour from men.

@Bromley4ever I agree re make teachers, my older 3 boys have all flourished with male teachers at primary school.

@Hardbackwriter, I dunno, I guess people may be more interested in secure jobs now what with Covid & more involved Dads who have done home schooling who fancy a career change, plus more respect for key worker jobs maybe? Fingers crossed, I really think it would help. There are more at secondary level and I imagine it helps but that's a bit late.

@ShivD

Hmmm, interesting one. I have 4 boys ( and 1 baby girl so can’t comment on difference between them yet.

Mine are all pretty gentle and relatively calm as are H and I so they’ve obviously got our temperaments there.

Life is much easier if we get out and about during non school days but I’m the same and I’m a grown woman so I’m not sure I buy into the ‘boys need to be run’ and I definitely don’t agree with ‘boys will be boys’ that’s lazy BS from a patriarchal society to excise shit behaviour from men.

I do always find it funny how many of the traits that people say makes DS a 'real boy' are much more like me (a bit loud, quite adventurous, hates being stuck in the house all day) than DH (much calmer than me, less physically active, very quiet)

My god what a horrible thread.

It's literally like some people hate boys. I have two boys and have known many more because of their friends and I don't recognise much of this terrible, boisterous, violent behaviour people describe. Eldest is 12 now so I feel I've had a good few years of raising dc, parties, soft play, playgrounds, sports teams under my belt. Most boys ime are quite laid back and no trouble at all.

I've witnessed shocking, horrible behaviour from boys and girls. When we're at the park and one of my ds are playing nicely on something it's always a girl that will come and fold her arms and glare at ds until they move. Even when there are two swings and one is free they want the one my ds is on. Then when he moves she doesn't want it anyway. But I can't say girls are spiteful and manipulative and ask where we are going wrong can I?

There are some developmental differences between boys and girls that may make some school related things harder for boys at a young age. Maybe people just don't know how to handle this.

If we are going wrong anywhere it's probably sexist claptrap like my Fil who constantly bangs on about how you 'can tell' he's a boy, discouraging boys from doing anything seen as 'girly' and shaming them for it.

Why can't people just nurture their dc for who they are regardless of fucking stupid stereotypes.

Boys are generally more hands on and verbal in their behaviour (eg pysical fighting!!) therefore they always get into trouble. However their diagreements are usually done and trusted quite quickly.

And this one of the reasons boys fight. It's easy.
No need to deal with hurt feelings,whatever is causing the fights,the emotional side of things and their emotional wellbeing. Oh well they had a fight ,take some play away and expect them to get over it.

Guess what? Boys can also hold grudges,they can be manipulative,tell on others, get others in trouble,get hurt feelings,be upset,anxious etc.
Those feelings need to be accepted,expressed,named and explored.

Jimmy punching Frankie because he was shouting at him and he's damaged because of the shouting and DV at home isn't going to go away just because he had a punch up. Isn't going to stop him next time just because he missed some play.

Johnny giving as good as he gets doesn't mean he isn't anxious about coming to school and crying every night because he's worried he'll get into yet another fight,get hurt,get in trouble.

Nick being annoying and struggling to interact appropriately with peers which normally ends in a fight on both sides, doesn't mean he doesn't feel inadequate,left out and still unable to see where things went wrong. So it happens again the next day,and the next until fighting is all he does because he knows the "rules" around that.

Boys being taught to be strong,not cry,be a man, "stand up for themselves", hit back, "hold their own". So they do fight back because it's easier to deal with than the ridicule ,minimising and even telling offs that they get at home.

The assumption that they had a fight and just because they seem ok, that means it's over and dusted with is silly and reckless.

For a website that generally is adamant violence is never the answer, there are a lot of parents and educators willing to minimise the effects of boys fighting because it's "easier to deal with".

It might be for you,doesn't mean it is for the kids involved.

“But it stated the number of negative stereotypes and names that can be applied to girls who exhibit bad behaviour, from “diva”, “madam”, “shrew”, to “bitch”. Even the supposed compliment “feisty” is backhanded. With girls there is often an assumed malevolence to their bad behaviour. We are far more likely to attribute manipulative traits to girls than boys.”

I agree with this comment. My DD had a minor falling-out with a little girl at preschool when they were both three (some of the usual “you can’t come to my house to play” stuff). My mother still goes on about the other little girl, pigeonholing her as a “little cow” and a “mean girl”, saying that there was always something she didn’t like about that girl and that you can tell some kids are just naturally mean.

I pointed out to my mother that my DB was far meaner and more spiteful to other kids when he was a preschooler (and long after preschool). Yet my mother always complains that DB was just misunderstood and that it was so unfair that he went to school with a bad reputation. Apparently it wasn’t his fault because anger issues “run in our family”.

Personally, I agree that DB deserved a second chance, and he did grow out of being a bit of a bully. But three year-old girls learning how to interact with other kids deserve a chance too, rather than being slapped with mean girl and popular kid stereotypes.

@Mollscroll

I noticed tremendously the difference in parental response when I stood on the nursery steps with my eldest who is a girl compared to standing there three years later with a boy. The boys were permitted to run riot in a way I could not comprehend. I controlled my son in the same way I controlled my daughter and other parents just didn’t.

The boys will be boys, fond eye roll, kid out of control thing drives me crazy.

@Mollscroll

Oh you're one of the smug girl mums looking on in horror at the boys who are, gasp, shock horror, running round. Is it that boy parents are more lax or perhaps it's actually that they recognise their boys have ridiculous amounts of energy that if not expended will create worse problems.

I (teacher) was asking husband (2nd level teacher) just this the other day. Boys' behaviour ha really deteriorated even in the last 5years imo. When I think of the first class I had 20 years ago those boys were great and dh agreed it is overall boys showing disruptive, disrespectful behaviour

This. I see it, too.

I also think electronic games have a lot to answer for here. Parents have been using them as babysitters for an easy life at home. I think we see the affect at school: no attention spans, bad behaviour., talking back, sulking when they get called out on their behaviour, etc. In particular, Fortnite ... nightmare behaviour from kids that live on it, and that tends to be boys.

Girls are hard differently, as others have also pointed out: sneaky and verbally manipulative.

Well I have one girl and one boy. My boy is turning 9 soon and just this school year has seemed to take a leap forward in his capacity to enjoy sitting and learning quietly, focussing and writing neatly, in a way his sister did from the off.

I mean he was always well behaved at school and did was he was required to do but he has always hated it - found it so hard and tedious to have to sit and write a lot and so on. I wonder if it's only now that he is really "ready" for sustained formal schooling. Now he seems quite proud of his writing and learning whereas when younger it felt like he was having to force himself into a box.

Whereas his elder sister would always happily sit neatly writing and underlining and often illustrating in the margin too. School never felt like she was having to shoe horn herself into something.

Just my observations really.

Sweeping generalisations here but from early years teacher I know on the difference between boys and girls. Boys at that age are more into larger motor skills think running around, climbing and sport. Whereas girls are better at smaller motor skills and happy to sit down painting, making collage or small play with toys etc.

This tends to make girls easier to handle in a school environment, but it’s more that the environment is unsuitable then the boys badly behaved. Something like a forest kindergarten is much more suitable for both boys and girls (much less gendering as well)

I would add that my son and his friends are extremely affectionate and loving. They have energy but those boys love each other! When they see each other at drop off they run over and hug and are so pleased. It's lovely 😊

Boys are less mature than girls of a given age so especially in younger years this tends to play a big part.

I am a TA in KS1 and I'm beyond stressed by the behaviour of a significant proportion of boys on the yard. They are incredibly aggressive, and their behaviour in class isn't much better. Give me a class of girls over a class of boys anyday.

It also tends to get more difficult for a lot of boys after early years which focuses on activities and facilitated learning, and they are expected to sit at a desk studiously following a lesson being taught at them, reciting and writing and for hours

The schools know this and could deliver the National Curriculum with a mix of the two styles, they just don’t have the staff, space and facilities

Why can't people just nurture their dc for who they are regardless of fucking stupid stereotypes

Most of us do. Everyone on this thread is saying that stereotypes are bad and harmful. Nobody is saying they hate boys or that it's boys' fault that the stereotypes exist. Many of the posters have sons. They are merely sharing what they have witnessed in general.

My ds is well-behaved at school and at home. He's not violent or boisterous. That doesn't change what I've generally winessed in over 20 years of teaching boys and girls.

Most poor behaviour among boys in school isn't violence or physical boisterousness, it's an inability or unwillingness to be in class without causing distraction and disruption. It's that kind of low-level behaviour which wastes countless hours of learning time during the school year and frustrates the other kids, not the occasional high-profile really bad incidents.

And yes, teachers do their best to deal with this behaviour, but dealing with it takes time and gives the teacher's attention disproportionately to the badly-behaved kids. Many MNers have commented about their dds being made to sit with or between 'naughty boys' to minimise behaviour problems. An understandable tactic, but it's sad that it's needed.

The 'boys will be boys' attitude needs to stop. Some parents encourage or indulge this from a very early age.

Also I absolutely agree with the comments relating to devices and screen time etc. We've had older teachers taking early retirement freely admitting the reason is because of the deterioration in children's behaviour in recent years, meaning they simply didn't enjoy their job any more and couldn't wait to get out.

Boys at that age are more into larger motor skills think running around, climbing and sport.

This tends to make girls easier to handle in a school environment, but it’s more that the environment is unsuitable then the boys badly behaved. Something like a forest kindergarten is much more suitable for both boys and girls

Lots of boys are still unable to sit sensibly through lessons right up to their mid teens though.