What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

I have one boy, who is different from his brothers. Have no idea why, they were raised the same. He disrupted classes, he refused school, bunked off in toilets. He’s taken me all the way to court. But his other two brothers are doing well and are a joy to teach. Have no idea why.

@Fatted

I must admit that as a mother to two boys, I find it quite sad that the general consensus is that boys are horrible, aggressive, badly behaved and have no redeeming features. There are so many posts from mothers on here who are so disappointed to only have 'substandard' boys. It does make me feel like my kids have already been written off by the world.

I think perhaps children of both sexes should be treated as the individuals that they are and we stop peddling the gender stereotypes on both sides. My children are capable of being boisterous, rough and aggressive. They are also capable of being calm, kind and thoughtful. Just like I was at that age.

Boys are GREAT!

I actually feel sorry for people who don't have one.

Truly.

@eatsleepread as a mum of girls I think you’re missing or excusing the underhand cruelty of some girls. The exclusions, the sly comments, the constant undermining of self confidence. You have your narrative but it’s not an accurate picture of reality.

As a secondary teacher, I’d much rather deal with a ‘naughty’ boy than a ‘naughty’ girl.

All behaviour is a form of communication. The boys running madly around the primary playground are simply enjoying the physical sensation and letting out possible pent up tiredness, frustration, joy, excitement. They just have to be taught how to do this safely.

@Hardbackwriter if you look at schools "back in the day" there were plenty of problems with boys behaviour then yes, that's why they used to beat them to keep them under control. But even they didnt start at 4. And if you look at prep schools and the like there was always a huge amount of sport and activities and competition encouraged - and violent and unpleasant behaviour was pretty much the norm and was tolerated and institutionalized.

So yes education is "feminised" now because we've kept the constraints but dont want he bad behaviour.

@oakleaffy

Boys need a heck of a lot of physical exercise and food.. {only had experience of boys though... }

My DS at 7 was cycling 10 hilly miles on a gear-less bike and riding ponies ..and still had high exercise needs as an adult..

If he came exploding out of the school gates I could tell if it has been a ''Play indoors'' day at break time...

''Raising Boys'' was a book I discovered too late.

This is just secist stereotyping.

I was like this during school years, as a girl. Girls can also cycle 10 miles!

I have a boy who has never voluntarily run anywhere and likes a nice sit down. He drives me mad on walks.

I see this in the playground now with my dc. Both boys and girls run around and are physical but it's only boys who start pushing, grabbing, shoving, kicking etc. In my case the parents are always trying their best to intervene but that's how it always ends up. I see girls climbing, playing tag, running etc but not kicking and shoving or wrestling.

Sexist not secist

I've got what people would consider a typical boy.

He loves running around, he is is boisterous and loud and does like a bit of rough play.

My DD was similar although always quieter than DS.

Not once have I any problems with his behaviour in school. In fact it is always commented how kind he is to his friends and how lovely his manners are. He is popular with both girls and boys in his class.

Occasionally u do have to discipline him (well tell him to stop) as he can get a bit carried away but that usually works

As my DD is getting older I actually worry more about her. Or should I say her classmates.

There are definitrly some who do not behave in a way I find acceptable and can actually be quite unkind. But its often down out of sight of grown ups.

I think both my kids are kind, happy and good fun.

Well being a mum of a boy and a girl i have to say my boy is much more active, wild and rough in play.
DD gets away with a lot more than him, because shes the little one. So i dont think its a 'boys will be boys' attitude. When i ask DD, she wants to play with her soft toys, dolls, draw etc. DS wants to go outside or build forts and play fight.
Thats how it is with my 2 anyways. Most of my friends have girls and they are all much more quiet than DS. I do have a cousin with 2 girls who are very active and wild, so obviously they exist as well.

And when I say pushing, shoving and wrestling, this is amongst boys who enjoy playing with each other rather than bullying.

I was wondering the same thing recently. My DD is 3 and is being bothered, let's say, by a boy at her nursery. He's told her he's going to 'punch her in the face' and on Wednesday he followed through with his threat and hit her twice. She now has a bruise on her cheek. The nursery are "dealing with it" apparently - they've got an additional member of staff in the classroom to monitor this boy, but obviously I am hurt by his behaviour.
We also have two different families we're friends with who both have an older son and younger daughter. The two boys run riot, are grabby, pushy, stroppy and won't ever share or play kindly.
Knowing these two families fairly well, we have observed that they just don't discipline their boys at all. It's very strange.

What toys are they given when they’re tiny? Which TV programmes do they watch? What activities are they taken to? What are they dressed in? All these things can have very subtle influences on them. If they’re treated more like a stereotypical boy they will behave more like a stereotypical boy.

I've been a teacher for nearly 25 years (in a wide variety of schools from primary to secindary). Overtly disruptive behaviour in class, as well as physical misbehaviour during non-lesson time, is much, much more prevalent among boys. I have no idea how much of it is innate and how much is due to upbringing.

It's not stereotyping. It's patently obvious from experience. There are of course lots of lovely boys, and I don't just mean the unusually quiet, docile ones, but also energetic ones, confident ones etc. I like teaching in mixed schools, but the only school I taught in with practically zero behaviour issues was a girls' school.

I have a 12yo ds myself. He has his moments of course, but he's more compliant and rule-following than his sister and would hate to get in trouble at school.

It's not stereotyping is said so often but there's a whole heap of stereotyping going on every day in homes and schools.

They run around during class. They throw books. They open up the PE cupboard and take out the equipment (set aside for the class due to covid) and lob balls around. They run of screaming and yelling out of the classroom door into the playground. They chat to their mates. They poke, scratch and distract the girls and steal the equipment of the calmer girls they are partnered with. They talk back to the teacher. They write rude words on the white board. More than half the boys in class are like this. DD is in a school with 3 classes per year, which get mixed up, so it isn't just an unlucky intake
If this is happening then there are serious problems in the school, it's not just about boys per se. The leadership is at fault. I say this as a teacher of more than 30 years.

I am a mum of two teenage boys, both of whom are very different. One is very physical, football player and lots of energy whereas the other is a computer gaming geek who loathes anything physical. Neither is badly behaved, both do well at school and I just let them be who they want to be 🤷‍♀️

Personally I have always found parenting boys relatively easy. My friends who have girls have always had lots of issues with friendship groups, bullying, name calling, exclusion. Plus as they get into their teens they have a tougher time going through puberty. Whilst I have no direct experience it appears to be much trickier being a parent to girls than boys!

I find it fascinating in terms of the nature/nurture argument but also the age of starting school. I wonder if the differences are less stark in other countries. My 4yo has just started school and the differences and variation are massive. I wonder if in the early years the type of play is one of the big contributing factors. The girls just seem much more verbal and social. Already she is saying she doesn’t want to play with the boys (with a few exceptions as there are some really lovely boys in her class).

What I’ve noticed (in our class) is the summer girls that struggle seem to be more shy, scared of things etc. The summer boys seem much more manic. It just seems like too much expectations re the classroom for them.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

The dolls house thing shocked me a bit because I had thought we were reasonably gender neutral

Oh my, I remember when my son wanted a dolls house. I had to pretend it was for me because he was too embarrassed.

Boys are taught that girl things are beneath them. Girls are taught that boy things are aspirational.

Boys are also taught that they have to be strong and hard. Are told big boys don’t cry. The first sign of emotion and they are labeled mummy’s boys are weak

@Kljnmw3459

And when I say pushing, shoving and wrestling, this is amongst boys who enjoy playing with each other rather than bullying.

There do seem to be fundamental differences in boys and girls from a young age...Steve Biddulph goes into why this is...Biochemistry.

Testosterone surges... Even our female GP [Mother of three boys] said testosterone surges is what makes boys act in a more 'physical' way.

Kids will be kids.
Some are high energy, some are boisterous,some are loud,some are fidgety ,some are mean etc. Some are not. Kids are awesome and annoying. They get angry,they get sad,they get ridiculously happy and excited. They shout and they cry.
A lot of them aren't just one thing.

Setting up expectations based on "nature " is failing both girls and boys. It's telling them they're not good enough and they need to change their behaviour,personality,interests to fit in the girl or boy box.

It's bullshit. The quietest girl in class(incredibly shy too) still runs around like a lunatic at playtimes. One of the aggressive boys likes to do handwriting when there is free time,especially if this comes with attention and praise. They all love a hug,a joke,a connection,attention.

As school staff it's about getting to know them individually, figure out what works,what makes them tick. Allow them to express that as much as possible. We have boys that have such amazing handwriting it puts mine to shame. We have boys that are amazing artists and I encourage and praise that. We have girls that love playing football and are now part of the "team" at play.

Children do not fit into neat little boxes in general. They are curious,their interests are varied and ever changing. It's the adults that impose limits on them, either at school,at home or by their peers (which comes from the adults they are involved with).

Mum of 2 SEN boys here.

Nope I actually find girls behaviour excused far more often and boys told they shouldn't do this, that and the other.
After all I was a little girl once myself and this was the case growing up. I remember being naughty myself and the teacher blamed it on the boy who sat next to me. I remember crying cos I'd hurt myself accidentally and a boy next to me got the blame, can go on and on. I recall girls being far more vindictive and carry on a sulk/punishment of someone whereas boys were more over it in seconds and all playing nicely.

I've only ever heard the 'boys will be boys' phrase when I moved to the North of England and my In-Laws used it as an excuse for poor parenting. Boys were never disciplined or showed the correct way to behave in a situation so carried on the cycle of disruptive behaviour... however for my 1st child who displayed NO boyish behaviour (we were unaware of the SEN needs at that time) on the tiny rare occasion he dropped something, or bumped into something all hell would explode with the batshit in-laws. When eldest cousin belted my eldest full force on the top of the head MIL just laughed and said 'boys can be so heavy handed' umm...nope...he does that to all the children he comes across cos he's never told it's inappropriate to do it you moron!

@CaptainMyCaptain

They run around during class. They throw books. They open up the PE cupboard and take out the equipment (set aside for the class due to covid) and lob balls around. They run of screaming and yelling out of the classroom door into the playground. They chat to their mates. They poke, scratch and distract the girls and steal the equipment of the calmer girls they are partnered with. They talk back to the teacher. They write rude words on the white board. More than half the boys in class are like this. DD is in a school with 3 classes per year, which get mixed up, so it isn't just an unlucky intake If this is happening then there are serious problems in the school, it's not just about boys per se. The leadership is at fault. I say this as a teacher of more than 30 years.

Agreed...And also feeble parenting. No excuse for bad behaviour like that.

Stereotyping certainly goes on in homes from a very early age, and the effects of that will then perpetuate stereotyping in schools.

When I said 'it's not stereotyping', I only meant that saying there's more overtly disruptive behaviour in class among boys than girls isn't stereotyping -it's just patently true. That doesn't mean that there is no stereotyping in schools when it comes to how boys are spoken to or treated compared with girls. It's very hard to eliminate that altogether, however hard you try, especially when the behaviour of lots of boys is often living confirmation of those stereotypes.

If this is happening then there are serious problems in the school, it's not just about boys per se.

True, but even in a school which deals well with behaviour issues, the impulses to behave that way are not eradicated. The problem is still there, regardless of how well-suppressed it is.

From birth, boys are socialised to 'be boisterous, high energy' etc, we expect it from them, so are less likely to pull them up on it, and probably on some level even unconsciously encourage it.

Girls are expected to be kind and quiet, not cause scenes etc et voila that's what happens. I think that part of the reason that there tend to be lots of friendship issues once girls get to KS2 and beyond is partly because there is a lot of emphasis for girls on friendships and making sure that they are making relationships and being seen to be kind and popular and liked. I feel like boys are able to get away with that stuff for longer, they are sort of allowed to do their own thing, stand up for themselves, get away with saying and doing things to people that girls wouldn't, so they give less of a shit.

I always think a good example is the way Lego is marketed. Lego marketed towards boys is about Ninjago fighting each other and battling, building 'cities' etc. Girls Lego is called 'Lego Friends' - there is a subtext emphasising the importance of 'friends' and relationships and being soft and nice and pleasing others that isn't there for boys.

Obviously I am generalising here, this doesn't apply to all boys and all girls. But I think it's very interesting that up until recently autism was thought to be a predominantly 'boys' thing, with what's his name Baron Cohen saying it to do with 'the masculine brain'. Whereas now, evidence seems to be emerging that it affects girls a lot as well, but because of the way that girls have been socialised, it just manifests itself differently and girls have learnt to hide it better.