What are we doing wrong with our boys?

[OhNoItsMonday]

NC for this. Mum of boys here.

I love my DC to pieces. They're too young for school yet. But I've already noticed that, whenever you hear complaints about badly behaved children in the classroom (or often outside it), it usually although not always seems to be boys who are being complained about. Just wondering why that is? What are we doing wrong with our boys?

I think a certain type of behaviour is excused and encouraged from boys.

A friend has a naughty boy and they seem almost proud. Like he's a proper boy. They never engage in quite activities like reading with him. Never seem to tell him no, just accept he's a naughty boy and that's ok. I wonder how different they would be with a girl.

When ever we go to soft play or baby groups, it's always boys pushing dd out of the way. Running around and smashing into others or taking over equipment that dd was playing on. People just allow it from boys when they woulndt from girls.

It makes me feel sad that at the age of 2 dd is already learning that boys will always take over and push her her out it the way.

My son is more boisterous than his sister. She is calm natured, he is not. She won't think to set up pillows on the floor and launch herself off a table, bed, chair to see if she can land on them, he will. She is more risk averse, he doesn't appear to have any risk parameters yet. His sister is very patient but that seems typical of girls her age. With ds I am working very hard on taking turns etc. Depending on the child's personality they may need more parental input on their behaviour or less. In reality I do not compare either child to each other or tell them to behave like each other. These are just things I have noted that make mine quite different to each other. I love them regardless but there are differences between boys and girls.

Also a lot of boys behaviour gets written off as boys will be boys whereas girls are praised for being quiet and not making a fuss. I am actively working on my dd speaking up for herself and making a fuss. I encourage her to use her big voice.

I think people who describe the differences between boy and girl children seem weirdly oblivious to the fact this will be a combination of nurture and nature.

Socialisation is very strong. Most differences have been proven now to be the result of different upbringings.

I think football culture isn't always healthy either. At primary school, the boys who played football seemed to think they were genuine heroes. The girls and boys who excelled at other things, such as gymnastics or drama or art, didn't think white so highly of themselves.

I (teacher) was asking husband (2nd level teacher) just this the other day. Boys' behaviour ha really deteriorated even in the last 5years imo. When I think of the first class I had 20 years ago those boys were great and dh agreed it is overall boys showing disruptive, disrespectful behaviour. Re the punitive approach mentioned, it is often not the most successful way of turning things around and parents do tend to know their children best so I hate this thrown out as the obvious fail on parents' behalf. I had a child last year and punishment just made him completely shut down so you have to get creative. It's a big issue and yes I think screens are a massive issue that we will look back on and shake our heads about. I have two very different boys here and I think there is a lot of toxic masculinity about, not enough expectation and guidance from many parents and again an inability to say no. Following with interest.

**YANBU, something isn't going right. In my DD's primary school the boys are just out hand. It is not so much violence, but an inability to self-regulate behaviour and emotion.

They run around during class. They throw books. They open up the PE cupboard and take out the equipment (set aside for the class due to covid) and lob balls around. They run of screaming and yelling out of the classroom door into the playground. They chat to their mates. They poke, scratch and distract the girls and steal the equipment of the calmer girls they are partnered with. They talk back to the teacher. They write rude words on the white board. More than half the boys in class are like this. DD is in a school with 3 classes per year, which get mixed up, so it isn't just an unlucky intake.

I read this post in amazement. I’m hoping that this is your daughter’s exaggerated account for effect, rather than what is actually happening in her school. If it’s a true account, there are some extremely serious discipline issues at that school. With over 35 years experience of teaching in a mixed sex school, I’ve never come across such behaviour from boys. The behaviour described in your post is absolutely unacceptable, if it’s happening.
As for boys’ behaviour in general, they absolutely do NOT have to be badly behaved. A lot of it is to do with expectations. And, for what it’s worth, while boys can be physically “rough”, girls can be unbelievably “bitchy” and make school life miserable for some children. That’s why I’m so glad that I teach in a mixed school. It helps to knock the edges off the worst behaviour of both sexes.

@TheRuleofStix

Oh, I am 100% serious, and make no apologies for it.
Of course girls are capable of vile behaviour, and I know my fair share of wonderful, lovely boys.
I can only go by my experiences of working in education - and as a parent - and I have observed that 'boy behaviour' is generally worse.

We designed an education system which prizes the ability to sit quietly and listen above all else. And then we expect this from age 4. That was never going to end well for a whole range of active children. And I say that as the mother of 2 boys who have always been praised for their classroom behaviour.

I have three boys, 25, 23 and 14. None of then are your stereotypical “Boys”. They like music and play musical instruments in orchestras. Ds2 took home economics at standard grade and ds3 loves to bake and draw. They all hate contact sports, prefer badminton or swimming. I will say none of them are too hot on housework but then neither am I. However this makes life hard. Ds3, in particular gets the piss taken at school where as no one would blink an eye if he was a girl.

No one is saying girls aren’t capable of vile behaviour, in fact quite the opposite.

It’s just there are more socially acceptable ways to make a girl feel bad for such behaviour and bring her in line, than there are for boys.

@Porcupineinwaiting

We designed an education system which prizes the ability to sit quietly and listen above all else. And then we expect this from age 4. That was never going to end well for a whole range of active children. And I say that as the mother of 2 boys who have always been praised for their classroom behaviour.

But again that was only more true, not less, when schools were full of exclusively boys. The idea that boys can't cope in a classroom where they're expected to sit still in silence is a very modern one (and we have a lot fewer classrooms like that anyway).

I think many parents today remain incredibly sexist, they hold their kids back almost as much as when I was a child. It's a lot less overt, so they don't for example say to a girl 'you would be a nurse not a doctor' but they subtly reinforce sexist stereotypes over and over again. I find some schools also reinforce it, which is draining.

Ds3, in particular gets the piss taken at school where as no one would blink an eye if he was a girl.

Yes PHMT. Patriarchy hurts men too.

But again that was only more true, not less, when schools were full of exclusively boys. The idea that boys can't cope in a classroom where they're expected to sit still in silence is a very modern one

Yes it’s an irony that many think we have a more permissive society these days yet at the same time bemoan the idea that we have feminised education and are stopping boys from their natural previously allowed boisterousness.

It’s the parents. The ‘naughty’ boys at our school have parents who have either the ‘it’s what boys do’ mentality or are really weak on discipline for bad behaviour. And that’s without exception. The SEN kids aren’t actually as disruptive as these boys.
Our daughter is as boisterous as any boy but reigns it in for class, and does a ton of sport and running around, our son is calmer but easily distracted.
I hear so many parents of boysnexcusing or expecting ceramtain behaviours from them.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

Ds3, in particular gets the piss taken at school where as no one would blink an eye if he was a girl.

Yes PHMT. Patriarchy hurts men too.

Yes this. I am very relieved whenever my children say they don't care what other people think. I remember saying this myself when people said I had to be a certain way!

It's developmental. They mature later, in general it's much harder for them to sit still in class. Then they are told off for fidgeting etc which builds up frustration. The fault is in our education system.

It’s the parents.

And the teachers too at times - not all but some. I've had to tell teachers that I won't tolerate the 'boys will be boys' bullshit.

Nothing wrong with my boy- don't include me in your "our".

My DS is not aggressive, he is sensitive and kind, hates football, never liked rough play.
He was popular at school with the ( many other) boys that felt the same way.
It only takes a couple of rough boys in a class to give the impression that all boys are like this.

boy’s behaviour is excused much more than girls, even from a very early age

I very much disagree. Boys are constantly told at school to sit down, be quiet and to repress all their natural behaviours. Feminine behaviour is considered good behaviour in a school setting.

I must admit that as a mother to two boys, I find it quite sad that the general consensus is that boys are horrible, aggressive, badly behaved and have no redeeming features. There are so many posts from mothers on here who are so disappointed to only have 'substandard' boys. It does make me feel like my kids have already been written off by the world.

I think perhaps children of both sexes should be treated as the individuals that they are and we stop peddling the gender stereotypes on both sides. My children are capable of being boisterous, rough and aggressive. They are also capable of being calm, kind and thoughtful. Just like I was at that age.

Boys need a heck of a lot of physical exercise and food.. {only had experience of boys though... }

My DS at 7 was cycling 10 hilly miles on a gear-less bike and riding ponies ..and still had high exercise needs as an adult..

If he came exploding out of the school gates I could tell if it has been a ''Play indoors'' day at break time...

''Raising Boys'' was a book I discovered too late.

The educators and parents need to be pulling on the same rope. It’s very easy to excuse bad behaviour but if parents get a bad report from the teacher, they have to do something about it immediately. Otherwise patterns get set and it gets very hard to correct. It’s no fun being the bad cop but it’s so necessary sometimes.

@ravensoaponarope

It's developmental. They mature later, in general it's much harder for them to sit still in class. Then they are told off for fidgeting etc which builds up frustration. The fault is in our education system.

Even in the playground waiting for the bell in the mornings, the boys are running round like lunatics. That's not naughtiness or boys will be boys...it's pure energy

Boys need a heck of a lot of physical exercise and food

Why only boys?