To call the school to complain DD not allowed to use toilet in class time

[BananaLlamaConCalma]

DD is 9/year 4.

They are allowed/encouraged to have a flask on their desk and drink throughout the day. DD appears to have necked hers today and needed a wee. She asked the teacher if she could go to the toilet. He said no, you can't go in class time. She asked again a little while later terrified she was going to have an accident. He again said no. She started crying as she thought she would have an accident in front of the class. She was then allowed to go.

I agree that children shouldn't waste time and did say to her that she should learn from this to drink an appropriate amount for the time but why is she not allowed a wee in lesson times? We were! She has said previously she holds it in all day. Didn't realise this was why. Also, what if she had her period? I know other girls who have started at that age!

So do I call him and say it's unfair and if she needs a wee she is to go or just leave it?

Op you're focusing your rage in the wrong direction. This will be a senior management policy, not an individual teacher one.

I didn't notice OP's 'rage' 🙄

I noticed a parent concerned for her DD & asking for opinions on whether she should contact the school.

So I guess she's able to figure out who best to talk to.

And Tracy as expected you gave me chapter & verse about why it just couldn't work in your school.

Okaaay.

As I said, I was writing about my experience & nowhere I know would refuse someone (adult or child) access to a toilet

Poor you, that it's not the case for you.

@TracyMosby

Oh just stop Tracy. There's no need to be so belligerent & trying to tell people what's normal in relation to toilet habits. Listen to yourself! Needing ti go to the toilet more than Every two hours isnt normal. Why live like that if you dont have to?

How the hell would you know what's normal?

Do you do a side line in gynae / urology?

Stop. It.

Pish, this again?

Are you actually telling me i dont know something about a different job? Really?

This will be a senior management policy, not an individual teacher one.

Not necessarily. My children’s school has a policy of letting children go if they ask, the head teacher is clear about her views on this. My son had a teacher who wouldn’t let the kids go because it was interrupting the lesson and repeatedly didn’t let children go. My son would be anxious leaving the house in case he needed to go to the toilet and it wasn’t a break time because his teacher would be angry with him and not let him go.

Head teacher was unaware this teacher didn’t let children go, and soon sorted things but not before there had been an accident in class and some very anxious 6 year olds.

I would complain. If a child need the loo for either using the faculties - or to mange their emotions then they should be allowed.

My son told me he went to the loo 3 times on his second day (year 1) in a new class. No problem each time. One of those reasons was because he was feeling overwhelmed and he needed some time out. We spoke to his teacher the next day to explain this was a coping mechanism he was using and she praised him for it.

@TracyMosby

Are you actually telling me i dont know something about a different job? Really?

Yes, if it relates to a specialist area like gynaecology / urology and when you confidently assert that there's 'something wrong' with someone who needs to use the toilet at a certain frequency.

How the hell do you know that?

(Beginning to doubt your credentials as a teacher now, given the idiotic posts you've written)

Id be complaining for sure. My child would hold her wee which could result in a UTI if she didn't go.

As for Tracy I go to the toilet every 1-2hrs. Sue me? Haha.

Wait til you have 15 year 7s asking you to go 10 minutes after lunch time.

Very nearly my year 7’s yesterday. 6 were apparently desperate for the toilet 20 minutes after the end of lunch.

Well yes it makes sense, bodies need a bit of time to process foods and drinks.

If I have lunch in a restaurant, I don't usually need to go to the toilet immediately, it takes a while to digest food or for bladders to fill and once they do people need the toilet. Going at the end of lunch break isn't much use really from a physiological perspective.
Pity children (and adults) aren't robots.

Aw your poor daughter.

My DD was about 7 and needed a wee during class time. Her teacher told her no because DD's best friend was already in the toilets and teacher thought they were both trying to get out of class. Sadly DD did wet herself in front of all her classmates and the teacher couldn't apologise enough to both me and DD. I completely understood and would perhaps had done the same. Thankfully DD is tough as nails inside and wouldn't allow it to bother her. As far as I know, no one took the piss out of her for it ('scuse the pun!!)

I remember when my daughter suffered from constant bladder infections in Y1. Took ages to work out she wouldn't drink at school because the teacher wouldn't let them use the toilet.
Spoke to the teacher who basically ignored m8. Following another infection I went to the head who sorted it out,
I don't think it would hurt to mention it but in a non confrontational way.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross
* Even in the middle of a lecture or seminar at university, or mid-meeting at work? You'd just get up and walk out?*

Precisely! When I started uni, I couldn’t believe you could just walk straight out of the lecture hall! Many people did, you don’t need to raise your hand or anything. Same with tutorials. I work in a call centre and can go to the toilet when I want as it is ‘our right’. I have never been in a proper meeting before
as I only have a quick 10 min one with my line manager. When I was doing my training for work, again people would just get up and go.

This thread shows clearly many don’t understand how people can suffer with bladder problems. My bladder is half the size of a normal person and I have to wear pads everyday since teenager due to leaking. It was a nightmare at school, trying to concentrate whilst holding on. I would be bursting in first period, I’d sometimes would have to run to the toilet in between lessons so I wouldn’t be late for the next lesson. One time I had a room change. It was an afternoon lesson and my bladder would calm down by afternoon, I wouldn’t need the toilet so much. But for some reason I was absolutely bursting. But my teacher wouldn’t let me go, and it just so happens that the toilet was literally next door. Was on the edge of my seats and couldn’t do any work. Was terrified I would wet myself.
I used to have extremely heavy periods as well. I would need to go by first period and this teacher would always let me. I cant imagine what would’ve happened if she didn’t.
Also, no one empties their bladder and bowels the same time everyday do they. What if you needed to do a poo suddenly. How can you hold that in. The teacher would just assume when you asked to go toilet, that you needed to Urinate despite it being 10mins since break time.

Regarding teacher needing a wee. I recall, many times in primary and secondary when a teacher would leave. But sometimes depending on the age they would get another teacher to keep an eye on the class.

Much of this depends on how it is managed. In my Year 1 classroom it would go like this: one child would ask to go to the toilet and then fifteen hands would shoot up asking to go as well. I’d ask if they were desperate, fifteen children would say yes. I used to let them go in twos or threes, trying to guess who really was the most desperate (not easy). They did this particularly during handwriting which just happened to be when there were no additional staff around so no-one could supervise them. My Head soon discovered all kinds of nonsense in the corridors and toilets and told me to stop allowing them to go during lessons. I was really reluctant because they were so little. But... I then made sure I reminded them much more clearly to go in their breaks and got a TA to go with those children who were most likely to need to go. Gradually over time I started to say to children who asked “see how you feel in five minutes” and then kept an eye on them. The vast majority forgot. If anyone did seem genuine I’d get a member of staff to accompany them (if available). The massive push for toilets during handwriting disappeared. Now they’re in Year 2 I get very few requests for the toilet. I sometimes ask them to wait a minute or two if it’s in the middle of something important but generally do let them go. It’s not foolproof but the way it used to be was ridiculous.

This is one of those things that parents would immediately understand if they had to teach a class for a day.

Once you’ve put up with the umpteenth interruption of classroom doors slamming, water bottles spilling, children messing around in the toilets/corridors and having to redo the input because the toilet wanderers have no idea what to do for their task... you would also end up asking the children to wait a little while instead of stopping the lesson for them.

Teachers aren’t power tripping they’re just trying to teach everyone. Villains.

@purplewaterfall

This is one of those things that parents would immediately understand if they had to teach a class for a day.

Once you’ve put up with the umpteenth interruption of classroom doors slamming, water bottles spilling, children messing around in the toilets/corridors and having to redo the input because the toilet wanderers have no idea what to do for their task... you would also end up asking the children to wait a little while instead of stopping the lesson for them.

Teachers aren’t power tripping they’re just trying to teach everyone. Villains.

But it is funny how some teachers seem to manage this without all the aggro isn't it? Even on this thread there are teachers who don't refuse children to use the toilet.

I think a grown adult who reduces a child to tears in desperation to use the toilet should not be teaching.

As teachers, we have to. We can't just wander off half way through a lesson and leave the kids unattended. Although based on this thread, clearly our human right to go to the toilet at the very second we want to should trump our safeguarding responsibilities as teachers.

Obviously in certain jobs you do need to hang on, but if you were suddenly very desperate and really needed to go, you'd go.
You wouldn't piss yourself in the classroom would you?
Children often can't wait like an adult can and shouldn't be put through the embarrassment of having an accident.

But as an adult, at uni and work we can just get up to go toilet without permission.

That depends on the work, you can't just excuse yourself from an operating theatre.

Students with medical problems should have a 'toilet pass' that they can show to the teacher.

I never stop a child from going to the toilet, I may make them wait until their best friend comes back. I also (depending on the school) tell them to write in their planner / diary and I will sign.

We have the same issue at school currently. It's that bad that if the child insists,they receive minus ten behaviour points, 3 strikes and they receive an instant after school detention.
DD is also year 9, she has her period, and she was denied access to the toilet last week whilst needing to change her pad.
Last year they had started locking the loos during class time but that caused so many complaints they revoked it. However now, due to covid, only one child may use the loo (even the one with 8 cubicles) and the rest have to wait outside in the corridor, with 1,300+ pupils it's impossible to all go at break and lunch.
You need to do as we are, action the parents group to complain. They can't ignore a big group of you.

Obviously children going to the loo disrupts their learning and the learning of others. So most teachers prefer that children wait until break or lunch. It can't be hard to imagine that some children will try it on and that one child getting 'special treatment' means others want the same. So as a teacher, you have to balance not wanting to miss a genuine need with not wanting to indulge those who fancy a wander round the corridor.

So when a child asks, I say 'It's XX minutes until break. I would prefer that you wait, but if it's an emergency, off you go.' So they know they can go if they really need to. And everyone needs to every so often. So far, no tears and no accidents!

Ex teacher here and this is one thing that used to annoy me. Let kids go to the loo ffs unless they are literally taking the piss.
I hated having to say no coz my line manager would tell me off. Nonsense. Yanbu.

Normally we do let the children go to the loo whenever they like but with covid restrictions it is a bit trickier now. The child has to be taken by an adult like a TA to make sure they dont wander the corridor and go out of their bubbles zone and to also make sure that there are not loads of kids already in there. If there is no TA in the room then they may have to wait until a staff member is available (pastoral staff have been making rounds to the classrooms for this purpose). They are not stopped from going completely though.

Oh, and only one child out at a time. So if a friend is already in the loo, you wait for them to return. But I've never had a 2 or 3 minute wait make any difference.

@CitizenFame

Surely the teacher can easily and quickly identify repeat offenders

@zaffa
What about if they cried when told no?

If they repeatedly tried to leave class to use the loo and repeatedly cried when told no then something else is afoot. If this is a daily occurrence or multiple times a day then it would be something to highlight to parents surely, and investigate further. There is a vast difference between a child using the loo once and repeatedly disrupting lessons by trying to leave midway through. Surely that should be dealt with case by case? What if she had wet herself? Would the lesson just have gone on whilst she sat in wet underwear?