To call the school to complain DD not allowed to use toilet in class time

[BananaLlamaConCalma]

DD is 9/year 4.

They are allowed/encouraged to have a flask on their desk and drink throughout the day. DD appears to have necked hers today and needed a wee. She asked the teacher if she could go to the toilet. He said no, you can't go in class time. She asked again a little while later terrified she was going to have an accident. He again said no. She started crying as she thought she would have an accident in front of the class. She was then allowed to go.

I agree that children shouldn't waste time and did say to her that she should learn from this to drink an appropriate amount for the time but why is she not allowed a wee in lesson times? We were! She has said previously she holds it in all day. Didn't realise this was why. Also, what if she had her period? I know other girls who have started at that age!

So do I call him and say it's unfair and if she needs a wee she is to go or just leave it?

Regarding teaching of course you don't walk out - you ask another teacher to supervise as required. How do you imagine this happens? Practically?

See also: till staff, factory workers

I've been 2 of those in younger years, and yes, I was able to go. Obviously if I'd been doing it every 10 minutes it would have been a problem.

But occasionally - fine.

Just nonsense.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I guess that’s the thing though, you’re teaching children who are still growing physically, emotionally and psychologically - who are developing their executive functioning, who are coming from all kinds of backgrounds and experiences and who may have their own challenges to face in just getting over the classroom door.

They aren’t mini adults, with adult capacity, reasoning and coping skills - they’re growing and learning in every sense of the word and their lives and concerns (and bladder function) don’t fit neatly into a 30 minute lesson. If they need to go to the toilet, let them go.

Excellent post @Jellycatspyjamas

Laying down the law? 😂 Can you hear yourself? I’ve offered a handful of comments with my personal opinion on a public thread, get a grip for goodness sake!

I've always hated this. I don't time my bladder as an adult so why should children have to?? They used to do this to us at school and I hated it. 'You should have gone at lunch' what, two hours ago

If it was 2 hours ago they would be about to have another break, so they can pop to the loo then, Lots of adults time their bladders, not just teachers.

Like I say I do let them go for a wee. Just want some acknowledgment that it does fuck up your lesson. That’s the reason some schools are reluctant to let kids pop to the loo whenever they fancy. It’s not some mad power trip, they are just trying to educate their pupils.

@Jellycatspyjamas
There’s a joke just screaming to be made from your comment but something tells me you might not be the humorous type, so I’ll leave it unmade.
I nearly made it myself, I’m not lacking in humour, or compassion, empathy or understanding - which you’d need to be to reduce a child to tears for needing the toilet.

Also a child needing a wee and holding it in for an hour is likely to be more distracted than missing two minutes of class.

Screw people who are saying you shouldn't make a fuss! I had frequent ut infections and wet myself a fair few times in primary school due to not being allowed to go when I needed - all avoidable.

I've been 2 of those in younger years, and yes, I was able to go

I’ve had more than two of those jobs in younger years and we weren’t allowed. What’s your point? I brought it up as a counter to the “you don’t get dictated to as an adult in a work setting when you can or can’t go to the toilet so why should children” posts, as though it was a rule exclusively for school children.

@TracyMosby

How do you imagine this happens? Practically?

I don't know the layout of your school but where I worked (previously, I work at 3rd level now), classes were close enough that a neighbouring teacher could keep an eye, if not SNA (maybe called TA in UK, not sure?) in the class.

See my last post re: supercilious 🙄

And I presume now you are going to tell me NO WAY could it happen in UK, so ok...I can only talk about my own experience which is that I have never been denied access to a toilet as required, in my working life.

@WhenSheWasBad

I've always hated this. I don't time my bladder as an adult so why should children have to?? They used to do this to us at school and I hated it. 'You should have gone at lunch' what, two hours ago

If it was 2 hours ago they would be about to have another break, so they can pop to the loo then, Lots of adults time their bladders, not just teachers.

Like I say I do let them go for a wee. Just want some acknowledgment that it does fuck up your lesson. That’s the reason some schools are reluctant to let kids pop to the loo whenever they fancy. It’s not some mad power trip, they are just trying to educate their pupils.

I understand that it may slightly mess up the lesson, but needing a wee is a bodily function. Not going can lead to infection, toilet anxiety, children crying or pissing themselves which is far more disruptive to their lives and learning. Desperately needing a wee is hardly going to make a child concentrate.

@CitizenFame

I've been 2 of those in younger years, and yes, I was able to go

I’ve had more than two of those jobs in younger years and we weren’t allowed. What’s your point? I brought it up as a counter to the “you don’t get dictated to as an adult in a work setting when you can or can’t go to the toilet so why should children” posts, as though it was a rule exclusively for school children.

So YOU have been dictated to about when you can go to the toilet.

I have not.

You've listed a range of jobs that you think wouldn't permit one to take a toilet break. I've said I've done some of those & not experienced that.

That's my point - not sure why you think your experience is more pertinent than mine.

@TracyMosby there's no need to investigate.

I'm 40 years old and if I need to go to the toilet then there's no way I could wait that long. I don't personally know anyone who could and why should they have to sit uncomfortable focusing on holding it in instead of nipping out to the loo?

classes were close enough that a neighbouring teacher could keep an eye, if not SNA (maybe called TA in UK, not sure?) in the class
Yes you're right. In my DC primary schools there is 4 classrooms both facing each other the teacher opposite will watch over 2 classes on rainy lunch breaks.
There isn't a need during the day most classrooms have two qualified teachers and an SNA depending on the students requirements.
Then there is resource teachers who come in for maths and reading to create smaller groups.

Again, if you cannot go two hours with a toilet break at 40, this needs looking into.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I guess that’s the thing though, you’re teaching children who are still growing physically, emotionally and psychologically - who are developing their executive functioning, who are coming from all kinds of backgrounds and experiences and who may have their own challenges to face in just getting over the classroom door.

They aren’t mini adults, with adult capacity, reasoning and coping skills - they’re growing and learning in every sense of the word and their lives and concerns (and bladder function) don’t fit neatly into a 30 minute lesson. If they need to go to the toilet, let them go.

Yes, you would think some of the teachers on here would have a bit more understanding of this. Evidently not.

Secondary teacher here. For what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve ever refused a child going to the loo during my career. Even in a super strict academy, where I would get pulled up on it if someone caught them going to the loo during lessons.

I’m just not comfortable with refusing, especially female students, who may well be asking for other reasons than just relieving themselves.

But there’s equally no point in pretending that it doesn’t fuck up your lessons, and yes, it does piss me off (haha, puns) on the inside.

I’ve never taught in a school with more than two hours between either a break, lunch, or end of the day. Most times, it’s less than two hours. So yes, that is when they should be using the toilet, and it’s your job as parents to remind them of this at home, and encourage them to do so. Because, shockingly, being in their lessons is kind of fucking important. Two hours between toilet trips is really not an inhumane amount of time.

Students with medical needs otherwise is easy, that stuff is communicated to teaching staff, and exceptions such as toilet passes are made.

Honestly, the way some parents go on. And yes, there are of course many jobs where you have to “time your bladder”. As others have previously said, we can’t leave our classrooms to go to the toilet. I think the most I’ve done is make a pretend trip into my stationery cupboard so I could bend double for 30 seconds due to hernia pain. No, I can’t just grab another teacher to watch my class.

Many years ago my daughter suffered from recurrent utis. I remember the paediatric urologist rolling his eyes when I mentioned that the teacher didn’t like children going to the toilet unless it was break time. He said that it was not good for children, especially girls, to not be allowed to go to the toilet when they needed to during the school day whether they had a UTI or not.

I worked in a call centre where you would be shot for using the bathroom unless you were on a break. They broke your hour lunch break into 4x15mins so it made it manageable.

@EarringsandLipstick
Because I was providing examples of jobs in a counter to the people saying it’s horrendous that children in school are made to wait but adults in work aren’t. Whether you were or not is your own experience, which are no more valid or invalid than my own. I gave examples of my experiences where it wasn’t permitted, which was the reason for mentioning those jobs in the first place...

@saussaggessandmasshh

Shouldn't have necked a full drink it's common sense not to Do that at times Where going to the toilet is tricky.

But also don't believe teachers should ever stop kids going to the toilet. An adult wouldn't accept that in work.

In one of jobs I was denied shop floor cover so u could go to the toilet. Only on a 4 hour shift so wasn't allowed to break to be able to go so I took a casual stroll to the back of the shop to ask the person supervising if she would watch the till for a few mins so I could quickly nip to the toilet. She said no cos apparently I wasn't going to the toilet I was just going to piss around in the back for 10 mins instead. Told her if she didn't let me go I would gladly stand there on the shop floor and do it there and then and make her mop it up afterwards. She let me go in the end. She was horrible. 3 stores she got moved from for bullying before coming to mine but they wouldn't sack her

@TracyMosby I didn't say I couldn't go two hours without needing to go. I said if I needed it I couldn't hold it in for 2 hours.

It's perfectly within the healthy range to need to go up to 10 times a day (although that's on the high side) so no investigations needed here for either me or the people I know who are the same.

Perhaps you need investigated if you don't see this as an issue? Maybe you aren't drinking a healthy amount?

@TracyMosby

Again, if you cannot go two hours with a toilet break at 40, this needs looking into.

Oh just stop Tracy. There's no need to be so belligerent & trying to tell people what's normal in relation to toilet habits. Listen to yourself! 😠

[quote EarringsandLipstick]@TracyMosby

How do you imagine this happens? Practically?

I don't know the layout of your school but where I worked (previously, I work at 3rd level now), classes were close enough that a neighbouring teacher could keep an eye, if not SNA (maybe called TA in UK, not sure?) in the class.

See my last post re: supercilious 🙄

And I presume now you are going to tell me NO WAY could it happen in UK, so ok...I can only talk about my own experience which is that I have never been denied access to a toilet as required, in my working life. [/quote]
Not every class has a TA. i dont have a TA once in an entire week. And no, the layout of the school doesnt allow for someone to look in from another classroom either. And actually it is a couple of minutes walk to the toilet from most classroom im in, so no, not at all possible. I actually Think it is a disgrace and sexist that there are an (inadequate but) equal number of toilets for men and women too. More female teachers than male. Women take longer in the toilets than men on average. Yet equal number of toilets. So Wrong.

Op you're focusing your rage in the wrong direction. This will be a senior management policy, not an individual teacher one.

Oh just stop Tracy. There's no need to be so belligerent & trying to tell people what's normal in relation to toilet habits. Listen to yourself!
Needing ti go to the toilet more than Every two hours isnt normal. Why live like that if you dont have to?