To call the school to complain DD not allowed to use toilet in class time

[BananaLlamaConCalma]

DD is 9/year 4.

They are allowed/encouraged to have a flask on their desk and drink throughout the day. DD appears to have necked hers today and needed a wee. She asked the teacher if she could go to the toilet. He said no, you can't go in class time. She asked again a little while later terrified she was going to have an accident. He again said no. She started crying as she thought she would have an accident in front of the class. She was then allowed to go.

I agree that children shouldn't waste time and did say to her that she should learn from this to drink an appropriate amount for the time but why is she not allowed a wee in lesson times? We were! She has said previously she holds it in all day. Didn't realise this was why. Also, what if she had her period? I know other girls who have started at that age!

So do I call him and say it's unfair and if she needs a wee she is to go or just leave it?

Genuinely had 12 year 7s ask today. What a waste of my time.

OK, so let's say I let those kids go when they like (and I did do this the first 3 weeks back in my year 5 class as they needed to get used to be being back in class).
Would it be ok for all the kids to go at the same time if they wanted to?
What about if there were the same boys kept asking every lesson?
Would you be OK if your child missed out on some of the input because they were in the loo?
Would you expect the teacher to catch them up - when? Would that impact the LD kids that need to teachers support after input?

I don't expect answers to these, but these are things I have to balance in my class when considering this.

@fastandthecurious

I've always found this so so weird. Never have I worked in a job where I had to hold my urine till my break time. Why should young children have to? As long as they aren't taking the pods and going every 30 mins I don't see the problem with allowing a child to use the bathroom when they need to.

What do you think teachers do? Leave the class unattended whilst they nip to the loo?

Shouldn't have necked a full drink it's common sense not to
Do that at times
Where going to the toilet is tricky.

But also don't believe teachers should ever stop kids going to the toilet. An adult wouldn't accept that in work.

@fastandthecurious

I've always found this so so weird. Never have I worked in a job where I had to hold my urine till my break time. Why should young children have to? As long as they aren't taking the pods and going every 30 mins I don't see the problem with allowing a child to use the bathroom when they need to.

You've obviously never been a teacher then.

@Hercwasonaroll I had 6 Year 5s all ask after one of them asked when I was explaining about clauses. It's so disruptive, especially for those that struggle in lessons, but maybe acceding to parent demand to loo access at all times is more important than their child's (and that of other kids) education?

My friends child wet herself in reception because of this stupid rule of only going at break time. She was 5 for gods sake and was told she couldn't go to the toilet. My niece pooed herself in reception also after having her hand up and being ignored. I think primary age children should only be having to ask once. They are still very young

I'm really surprised people think this is ok and OP shouldn't say anything. I am usually against complaining to the teacher as school has their rules and usually the teacher has a different story to the pupil but if this is true then I think it's just not ok to have to cry before you can go to the loo. I haven't ever been anywhere where I can't use a loo (provided there is one) when I've needed to. Work life isn't like this, why should young children in school have to experience this? I could be more understanding if she was older but she's only 9!

I agree about the disruption. Usually mid explanation with no hand up.

But as an adult, at uni and work we can just get up to go toilet without permission.

Even in the middle of a lecture or seminar at university, or mid-meeting at work? You'd just get up and walk out?

And what about at the theatre, for example? You wouldn't consider that it might be more appropriate to wait until the interval but just barge down the row mid-performance?

Why do people keep saying “work life isn’t like this”? Perhaps not for all jobs, but for lots of jobs, yes it is, including teaching, which has been pointed out several times.

Have a word with the school. Desperate kids should of course be allowed to go to the loo.

But honestly kids popping out to the loo does screw up your teaching (and it’s annoying when break ended 10 minutes ago). So the advice to your daughter about not guzzling would be really useful.

@Jellycatspyjamas

That can then interfere with teaching input with the constant disruption of kids going in and out the classroom. It them then means I have those kids not understanding the concept being taught and I then have to spend time with them explaining it all again,

I wonder how those teachers with, shall we say, a more flexible approach manage.

I wonder how much of a disruption it is to have small children crying and setting themselves because they can't use a loo when they need to ... I can't believe that interferes less with teaching than just using a loo! Surely the teacher can easily and quickly identify repeat offenders and deal with this on a case by case basis?

@saussaggessandmasshh

Shouldn't have necked a full drink it's common sense not to Do that at times Where going to the toilet is tricky.

But also don't believe teachers should ever stop kids going to the toilet. An adult wouldn't accept that in work.

As teachers, we have to. We can't just wander off half way through a lesson and leave the kids unattended. Although based on this thread, clearly our human right to go to the toilet at the very second we want to should trump our safeguarding responsibilities as teachers.

If they are not managing the learning behaviours of the children in their class, they will achieve less progress and very likely have more behaviour problems as they have kids unsupervised frequently. You also find it's the same kids who always want to go, as soon as it's time to do their work 🙄.
Were talking about 9 year olds. Teaching them to space out their drinks and go in registration, break, lunch or the changeover between afternoon lessons is a necessary level of independence in a 9 year old.

Of course you should talk to the teacher. If you don’t get a positive response take it higher.
Also make it clear to your child that if she truly needs the bathroom, she can go and you will deal with any fallout from the school.

So many weirdos essentially saying 'oh what an annoyance for a child to have to go to the toilet, serves them right for drinking water'. Life is not a race to the bottom. A child doesn't need to be reduced to tears before being allowed to go for a pee.

Speak to the head. Not ok.

Would you be OK if your child missed out on some of the input because they were in the loo?
Would you expect the teacher to catch them up - when? Would that impact the LD kids that need to teachers support after input?

I wouldn’t expect that going to the toilet meant missing the whole input, I also don’t expect that children get one input only on every concept - in my experience learning is repeated and layered. If they’re out of class so often they routinely miss all input, there’s likely something else at play which needs addressed.

9 year olds aren't small children.

So many weirdos essentially saying 'oh what an annoyance for a child to have to go to the toilet, serves them right for drinking water

I dint think anyone had said they would have let her wet herself (and serve her right).
They’ve mostly said they’d let her go on the 2nd time of asking. And they’ve said pupils nipping to the loo mid lesson is disruptive to learning. Which it is.

Both schools I went to were strict about toilet breaks.

#1. 1988, I was 4. I needed the toilet at break time. Teacher said no, I pooed myself. I hid the evidence in wooded area of the playground and carried on my day. Not traumatic but it's an abiding memory

#2. 1995, I was 11. I had a UTI and a fear of asking to go to the loo. I wet myself in class, a horror that stays with me. It's not something girls in a single sex school forget.

Kids should be trusted to go to the toilet at school. God, adults are horrible sometimes.

@RaspberryHartleys

Bit of an overreaction imo. I'd go with your approach of teaching her how to manage her liquid intake and recognise that she may have to wait until break as to not miss teaching time. At year 4, I dont think that's unreasonable

Over reaction? What was an over reaction? A little girl so worried she will wet herself that she ended up crying infront of her class mates. Ffs!

@everybodysang

So many weirdos essentially saying 'oh what an annoyance for a child to have to go to the toilet, serves them right for drinking water'. Life is not a race to the bottom. A child doesn't need to be reduced to tears before being allowed to go for a pee.

Do you actually know what the phrase "race to the bottom" means?

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

But as an adult, at uni and work we can just get up to go toilet without permission.

Even in the middle of a lecture or seminar at university, or mid-meeting at work? You'd just get up and walk out?

And what about at the theatre, for example? You wouldn't consider that it might be more appropriate to wait until the interval but just barge down the row mid-performance?

Yes, if necessary, people excuse themselves from meetings at my work.

If I'm chairing a meeting I will say at the start we'll have a break at 11 or whatever so people know they'll have a chance but if they need to go before then so be it.

It's actually becoming a noticeable issue now that all our meetings are virtual so colleagues can have back to back meetings all day, a few times people are leaving for a wee.

At the theatre I limit drinks to try to avoid having to go to the loo but if I were desperate I'd go and come back to my seat at the next suitable break.

At school it is inhumane to not let children go to the toilet when they need to go.
People go on about what if the same child always asks, we'll maybe it's because that child has a bladder or bowel condition.
It's okay saying parents should let teachers know if that is the case, anyone can have an urgent need to go on a given day.
How much will a child learn if all they are concentrating on is not having an accident in class?
I still clearly remember a few people in school that it happened to. One while we were saying a prayer and she stood there crying and wetting herself. Really humiliating.