To think that the decision to have children is a risk...

[GreenWoodpecker123456]

...because you can never be sure whether you'll enjoy being a parent, what kind of child you'll have etc.

I ws having this conversation with someone and they said it's no more of a risk than anything else in life like getting married or going into a particular career.

I don't agree, because having kids is the one thing in life that you truly can't reverse!

AIBU?

When I had ds 6 years ago it was the biggest upheaval to my world as I knew it.I had pnd for the first year but somehow got through it and I adore my son.My life is good but ill never have anymore dc as I don't want to "rock the boat" any further.Im at my limit,I'm not cut out for multiple children and I'm at peace with that.

This is one of the, many, reasons we only have one child (by choice)

I've got 4. My first was an accidental pregnancy. I was v.young and scared and didn't want kids and the first couple of months was awful. But i loved her and wanted another.

It was exciting! Being young you don't look at the risks so much. I fell easily and loved it all. Lovely no.2 no probs.

No.3 - same. I was nothing but excited. I remember vaguely thinking at one point that lots of things can go wrong ... and every time i have a baby the odds go up of something going wrong ... but it was brief. And nothing went wrong. Lovely no.3. Best birth of all.

Fast forward 12 years and remarried and new DH wanted to try for a baby. He had none of his own. I was petrified. Petrified i tell you! I was older, wiser, i'd seen friends go through the sadness and disruption that can be caused when things go wrong. I spent 9 months in a state of constant worry convinced that something would happen to me or the baby. All the scenarios running through my head every day. Thankfully everything was ok. No.4 fine and healthy. (horrible birth experience but no health probs)

I would NEVER have had 4 kids if i'd started later in life. Age makes you much more cautious IMO.

Yes I agree, a lot of my friends viewed it more as a sign of commitment between them and their partner weirdly, or seemed focussed on the baby years and not the fact that they grow up- or assumed that when they were 18 they'd get their 'freedom' back no matter what.

I am not the same person as I was before I had children. I think I am a better person, less selfish and less driven that I was when I was childless. But who am I to say that it's having children that made me that way, perhaps time and experience would have done that anyway?

My children are all grown up now, but I know I will never do a job as hard as that again, nor would I want to. Single handedly parenting five children, two with ASD traits, has (probably) made me who I am. And I quite like myself now, whereas I didn't before.

But, again, that could be maturity. Parenthood is one of those absolutes, you can't compare yourself 'with' children and 'without', because time passing is also involved and age and wisdom may come without the 'children' part.

Thanks everyone, glad to see most people agree with me!

For the PP who asked upthread whether it was a women with children - no, but they do want children.

@StrippyMug

I love my kids but if I had know how hard it would be, how much of myself I would have to give up to be a mother I'm not sure I would have done it. I find it impossible to give them what they need from me and to have enough leftover for myself most of the time so I feel continually hollowed out by motherhood. They are older now and it hasn't got any better. I think the things I really wanted and needed to be myself were just very incompatable with having kids.

Mine are a bit older and past the very young stage but I still find it hard. People say that you can do the things you want to when they are up and away but they don't always leave home, my frieds still have kids in their 20's and 30's at home! Also I just think much of who I was is just gone at this point. I've heard having kids described as setting off a bomb in your marriage which I think is a good description but try a nuclear bomb in your life!

I know people will say I'm just depressed and I am but its because of feeling trapped in my situation and because motherhood doesn't make me happy or fufill me at all.

I think you speak very truthfully about the reality of being a parent. It’s the reality that the mushy sentimental social media posts don’t show.

I love my daughter dearly but being a parent is largely a thankless task. Parenting is different when they are older and it’s definitely freeing because they don’t depend on you the same. The worries are still there though, every time they go out in the car for example. I don’t mean huge anxiety ridden worry, but a constant low level murmur.

I’m enjoying being a parent much more now my daughter is an adult than I think I did when she was tiny. It’s much less stressful and it’s a joy to see her navigating adulthood.

Children are a big responsibility which is why i only want one despite belonging to a religion which encourages us to be fruitful and multiply- Judaism.

Yes I have read that it is seen as the 11th commandment for Jewish people to have children which must make it doubly difficult if you are infertile.

I agree entirely. It's a huge risk. You don't know what you're getting or how you will respond to it and it's not like a job you can resign from or a partner you can leave, it's your child, you'll be their parent for the rest of your life.

I think it's a risk because it can utterly destroy your body. Or leave you with postnatal depression.Even (highly unlikely but it does happen) potentially kill you. If we were properly educated from youth on that damage pregnancy and childbirth dies to a womans body, I daresay a lot more of us would avoid it.

Completely agree. My sibling has a child with profound and multiple life long needs. Her life is completely dictated by her child. She basically has no life of her own and my nephew will never be independent. It’s been horrendous and led to marriage break down, loss of career.

Lots of people assume they’ll have a healthy child & never think how they’d cope with a disabled child.

I'm surprised that people are surprised to find that being a parent takes a lot more than it gives ....broadly speaking

@Bunnymumy

I think it's a risk because it can utterly destroy your body. Or leave you with postnatal depression.Even (highly unlikely but it does happen) potentially kill you. If we were properly educated from youth on that damage pregnancy and childbirth dies to a womans body, I daresay a lot more of us would avoid it.

Of course which is why it's in the interest of men to minimise and trivialise the burden imposed on women, they want us to carry on producing children so that society can continue but if we are in aposition to clear sightedly weigh up the pros and cons lots of us would decide we prefer to live our lives for ourselves populations would implode

@StrippyMug you speak from my heart. My kids are still small, but I am old. So by the time they are independent, I will be too old for the really demanding sports I enjoyed. And they have destroyed my previously relaxed and gentle husband.

Exactly and well said.

I had 2 best friends have DC, 1 at 18 and 1 at 24 and the latter was more equipped as more life experience but the 18 year old did it to get away from her DM and said to me more than once after having her 2 DC that she'd wished she'd never had them... she also said the reasons why, e.g. she couldn't work easily etc.

My DM was also a single DM herself when younger but with none of the support DM's have now - her DP's didn't help out much at all with us.

I fell pregnant at 17 and 21 - latter was miscarriage and first one was termination but again I think I was too young - I actually spent most of my 20's panicking about becoming pregnant and taking the MAP even if I'd been on the BCP.

In fact when younger I always said and meant it that I was 50/50 having DC and not having them, I'd also not had good examples of relationships but got married at 29 and then divorced a few years later, he wanted DC, I didn't really, well I did, but wasn't sure if I wanted them with my DH, I also had a miscarriage at 32 and was secretly relieved.

I've known 1 friend who has 2 severely autistic DC and her marriage ended over it - she says she loves her DC but says if she'd known about the autism she probably wouldn't have gone ahead with the pregnancies, another has a DC with Down's Syndrome and also a NT DC and says it's hard work with the DS DC. A neighbour and friend has 3 DC under 10 who are all NT but says it's hard work!

I'm now too old to have DC but would maybe adopt or foster if I met the right man.

One close friend with 2 DC who I thought was really happy - 2 NT DC, nice DH etc - said to me one day "it's great having DC, a family etc but you realise from the moment you're pregnant and have DC that you are now responsible for them, it's not like with someone else's child, you can't give them back etc, it can take time to come to the entire realisation of that but when they're babies it brings you back down to earth pretty quickly, the scale of it all, the responsibility!"

I thought the above statement was very frank of her - and I suppose it is true.

@blue25

Completely agree. My sibling has a child with profound and multiple life long needs. Her life is completely dictated by her child. She basically has no life of her own and my nephew will never be independent. It’s been horrendous and led to marriage break down, loss of career.

Lots of people assume they’ll have a healthy child & never think how they’d cope with a disabled child.

It's not even that.

I've got a friend who has a DD and a DS - didn't mention in my OP - one is 10 and the other is 8 - she confided in me recently she quite dislikes her DD - but likes her DS more - she said she loves them both equally but finds her DD's behaviour hard to deal with - says she is clingy, precocious etc. I actually did mention maybe she should speak to someone about her dislike of her DD but got shut down on that. She's also a SP with minimal help but some contact from the DC DF.

Looking at my friends who haven't had children now (with my eldest just in year 7) it looks like MORE of a risk to have not had them. An anecdotal sample rather than science of course but my friends without kids seem lost and unhappy.

I think the risk is there, but it's very small. Without a doubt some people never enjoy being parenta and/or find it hard to love or like their kids, but it's an extremely small minority, I'd say.

I am not a 'maternal' person, I was never soppy about babies, didn't really know what to do or say around them and small children, and I can't say I experienced this 'unbelievable rush of love' thing when I had mine were born, but I always found the idea of bringing up kids really interesting and I have loved it and love my kids

Yes it is a risk. Amazing but still a risk.

[quote StrippyMug]@Theatrically

"But in saying that, there is the school of thought that says you are more likely to regret the chances you didn't take."

I think that is less a school of thought and more what they call a platitude![/quote]
Before we had dd1, dh and I had 7 years of trying for dc, we had fertility treatment, miscarriages and I had had cancer.
We were at a point of saying, 'enough', when our consultant said the platitude, quoted above.
I guess it is a platitude, but at the time it did make sense to me...and believe me, the risks felt huge - potentially more miscarriages, potentially a secondary cancer, I was 37 so potentially higher risk for disabilities, and although dh and I were very happy - we had no money and dh had struggled mentally and emotionally when I had cancer.
I am thankful every day that we took the risk. Even on days where it is incredibly tough - and it has been, we had 3 kids under 4, one of whom has complex needs as the result of a rare genetic condition. They are 14, 13 and 10 now, and I am immensely glad we took the risk, they are each of them amazing young people.
I do think everybody should consider the possibility that they could be the parent to a child with disabilities, I think people live under the illusion it only happens to other people and that parents of children with additional needs are somehow different and exceptional.

In countries where women have better job prospects and more equality with men the birth rate is lower, this is a strong correlation
one of the chief ways that men benefit from keeping women oppressed is that they do not get the chance to taste the freedom they could have if not constrained by the demands of having children

Also a risk given the state of Earth. Apparently we’ll start to feel the negative consequences of global warming from 2050. Not a great legacy to leave to kids.

@Bunnymumy

I think it's a risk because it can utterly destroy your body. Or leave you with postnatal depression.Even (highly unlikely but it does happen) potentially kill you. If we were properly educated from youth on that damage pregnancy and childbirth dies to a womans body, I daresay a lot more of us would avoid it.

How can it utterly destroy your body?

It's interesting I have a friend/ex colleague from work - she and her DH had wanted her DD - we stayed in touch after she left work after having her DD, when her DD was about 1 year old I was WFH and I got a long phone call from her - telling me in great detail about her PND - it felt almost cathartic the way she was telling me about it as in calls after this one or visits when we met up she didn't mention it at all. You wouldn't think this woman would have PND either, but just goes to show you can't tell who it will effect and that was her point of telling me, how she didn't think she'd get PND, how destroying it was but luckily she was over it now. She said it affected her so badly that she wasn't sure she wanted to have another DC in case she got it again and she definitely didn't want to experience PND again. She also mentioned it affected her marriage - yet her DH was lovely, understanding etc.

I wanted children but couldn’t have them. I’m late 50s now. TBH if I could go back and have them I don’t think I would. My life just now is good.

Of course which is why it's in the interest of men to minimise and trivialise the burden imposed on women, they want us to carry on producing children so that society can continue but if we are in a position to clear sightedly weigh up the pros and cons lots of us would decide we prefer to live our lives for ourselves

I completely, whole heartedly agree. Why some women go along with this narrative when they know better is such a mystery. I felt every woman in my life had kind of lied to me when I had my first baby. Everyone was gushing over the possibility of a new baby, how lovely it would be inc my own mother. No one choose to tell me the truth. I knew to some degree it would be hard, painful, tiring - but very few people will tell you outright that it can be absolutely brutal.

I have told both of my dds that having children is no fairytale, that they should think very carefully whether having children is right for them, I have told them the truth from the get go. I am not lying about the hardships or the joys - and have offered a very balance honest view.

For me, it is a matter of honesty and transparency - a little like the father christmas moment. All young women need to be completely clear on the very real impact of motherhood, then they make a choice based on real fact not sentimental bullshit.