New partner, moving and DD13

[starryeyed19]

My partner and I have been together long distance for about five years and we got engaged last year. We have planned our wedding for April 2021.

My partner lives in a city about 100 miles away - it's always got lots of things going on and I'm a big fan.

My DD13 has never seemed particularly for or against my partner but has tolerated his visits and us going to him although she has lately been saying she doesn't want to go.

I've applied for a job down there and got it. She is absolutely refusing to move and has said that she didn't want to move and I was ruining her life. That she didn't like going there, she didn't really like him coming here and that she didn't really want us to get married.

I don't know what to do. I don't want to force her to go. I don't think I can. But am I supposed to give everything up because of her refusal to go?

There's a lot of backstory so I am trying to cover the essentials here. I was married to her father for 16 years but it was an arranged marriage that I didn't really want to take part in and it was not a good time. Her younger brother also has quite severe autism and has moved to residential school about two years ago after a lot of heartache and trouble.

What do I do? I don't want to give up my relationship. I don't know how my fiancé will feel about postponing us living together until my daughter is OK with it or leaves home. What can I do to try and improve their relationship?

Also will she be under pressure to get an arranged marriage if you stay? How does she feel about that?

@crikeycrumbsblimey

Mumsnet - where cultural sensitivities meet sledgehammers.

Not really - the cultural sensitivities were clearly surmountable when it was for OP’s benefit.

My mum did that ,married a man I hated and moved me home and school.to a new area
I’d never been so unhappy in my life.
Left home as soon as I could ,
Didn’t really visit as new husband and I didn’t get on.
So she had very little contact with my children,and I barely saw her over the last 30 years.
It was her choice ,she could of made more effort

@zatarontoast I think many posters do understand more than you might think about this dynamic, from various angles. @Dalooah for instance, is spot on.

@GarlicMonkey

It must be something about 13 year olds. My fiancé & I are house hunting for our first home together in a different area, I've also just been offered a job there. All of my children except the 13 year old are really looking forward to the move. It's been a tough lesson for him but the world doesn't revolve around him & personality, I think it's poor parenting to give any child the impression that it does. Of course his happiness matters but our move is best for the family unit & it IS going to happen. We've sat & worked out some conditions which work for us all (frequently of visits back to the old area, extension of 'WiFi off time' in the evening to allow facetime with friends etc). Not that I expect the visits back to last that long, he'll soon make new friends & won't want to leave them to revisit the past. He's still not 100% happy but has now accepted that sometimes in life, compromise is required. It's also been a good opportunity for him to start seeing me as a human being with needs of my own, rather than 'just mum'. Good luck, you have a right to be happy & don't always have to put yourself last on your list of priorities.

Better for the family unit You mean you've decided to uproot him and leave all his friends under the guise of 'better for the family unit'. I can bet if you hadn't decided to move with your boyfriend you wouldn't have been looking at moving him away.

Carry on as you are for a bit longer, if she doesn’t want to go to his then she can see her Dad? Do keep some weekends free for her though.

I’ve been there ,that 13 year old child moved to a new area and new schools ,new house and new friends.
It’s absolutely not anything I would do to my children

Yes, because only a BAME woman could understand the subtext of a Pakistani arranged marriage story

Seriously, how to alienate people and consolidate divisions within a society.

No @GoldfishParade, not at all. But if you read the thread back many are showing their lack of insight, questioning why she has kept her partner a secret, why she doesn't want to tell her parents about him and she shouldn't have to move town, just phone the police if she feels unsafe. If there was a BME section, posters from similar backgrounds would have threads like these brought to their attention more quickly. It's not about alienating the ma jority, more getting advice from posters who have lived experience and can advise the OP, instead of her answering questions that those without the experience cannot really seem to comprehend.

@zatarontoast

This is exactly why a BME sections needed - many posters don't get the seriousness of this situation because they don't come from the same background. The OP is Pakistani, has divorced her parents choice of husband. There is no concept of going no contact in our cultures, that is akin to murdering your own mother. What is also a huge issue that hasn't been mentioned is the impact not just of the relationship on the daughter, but the fact that he is someone who is culturally forbidden to the OP. Her daughter would have grown up with that ideology from extended family and community and the OP is trying to facilitate a better relationship between the two, when it seems neither want it. OP I think you need to be ok with the fact that your dd (who has had a fair bit of trauma already) isn't going to be ok with it.

Are you saying that because of our ethnicity, some of us have opinions that aren’t valid? I think OP wanted a broad spectrum of opinions. If only woman from strict Pakistani backgrounds were allowed to reply, it would probably be a pretty short thread.

As an additional point OP, how important is it to you to have more children? Just an extra dimension to think of. Your daughter is a teen now and i’m not sure how old your son is but he’s got extra needs. Are you sure you would want to go back to nappies and toddler stage etc at this point?

Couldn’t agree more @zatarontoast I’m horrified by the lack of empathy on here.

What the OO must have gone through already and be worried about the pressure starting on her daughter very soon

I agree with PP that your child comes first.. But I also think at some point in the future you deserve happiness.. It just isn't the right time for your daughter. She needs to know she comes first and you're not prioritising another man over her. It will affect your relationship with her if you force her to move. She has been through so much and she wants you there for her and not doing what another man wants you to do. Put your daughter first, she will be so thankful to you in the future that you did.. It this man is worth it, then he'll wait for you. Personally, I would never prioritise a man over my child and expect her to want to move if she's unhappy.
Just give her time. There will be other jobs in this City. Right now she needs you and stability, not to be uprooted.

But the facT is that the boyfriend isn’t of the same culture. So those questions will very likely be asked within the OP and her partner’s RL circle.

Saying this should have been posted in a certain section is precisely why so many people from different cultures feel segregated, and why so many people who are not of those cultures feel that they shouldn’t ever have an opinion because they just “don’t understand”.

If the daughter is forced to move, then she too is being forced to become a part of a different culture, it’s a clash where the Pakistani culture have their way of doing things which the British culture don’t understand and conversely the British culture have their way of doing things which the Pakistani culture don’t understand.

Unless you are prepared to embrace both cultures a cross-cultural relationship like this one has very little chance of success.

While I don't think you should move across the country at this stage of your DD's life, I absolutely think that MN could do with a BAME section. My husband is Indian, I'm British, and there is a real ignorance (not meant in a nasty way, it's just an experience many here don't have) regarding issues that can be a real threat within the Asian community.

Maybe I’m in the minority but I feel like you should move. You shouldn’t have to end or change a relationship because of what your 13 year old thinks, you are the parent here and perhaps you should sit down and explain to her how you’ve felt about every negative situation and how much pain you’ve been through, get on her level and be brutal and honest, you may find she will eventually come round to the idea you deserve some happiness. I also think you should try and associate the new place with fun, take her there for fun days out, let your DP do something of her choice e.g shopping etc on his own with her, work on their relationship and her relationship with the new city so that she can see it’s a fresh start and an exciting one. Can you not move to the new city but live apart for a while? I do think you should give it another 6 months but in that time work really hard to change her mind.

@purplesky18 yeah, guilt trip her daughter into moving. Great idea. Not. Parents should not put that kind of pressure on their children.

Not what anyone's saying @Mintychoc1 - but without some understanding many comments will be as relevant as a Jehovah's Witness on a Christmas thread

@Mintychoc1 no, I'm not saying opinions are not valid I'm saying a BME board might be more appropriate though for these kind of threads regarding advice for the OP. As a pp said, there is a huge amount of lack of knowledge which isn't helpful for the OP. T he OP upping and leaving to live with her Catholic boyfriend is not a scandal that her family will get over in a year, the way some are suggesting. It will have ramifications for everyone, most likely forever. The poor child is the real victim here, which everyone has pointed out.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@purplesky18 yeah, guilt trip her daughter into moving. Great idea. Not. Parents should not put that kind of pressure on their children.[/quote]
It's not guilt tripping, it's simply trying to make her understand from another point of view. 13 year olds generally don't grasp empathy for others very well and can be very self absorbed in their feelings and outlook. She's 13 ffs she should have a say yes, but she should not be the deciding factor on whether to move or not, like I said I would give it 6 months and work as hard as possible to build a positive connotation with the move and if that still doesn't happen, I would honestly just move anyway.

@purplesky18 there is no situation in where putting your relationship ahead of your children is acceptable. All the people on this thread who were made to do this as children have said they will never put their own children through it so that should tell you something.

Personally I think it's better for a kid to grow up seeing their mum carving out the best she can for herself rather than sitting swaddled in a dressing gown constantly "self sacrificing" and "putting her daughter first"

These things are not either/ or though. As some pp have said, there are compromises to be made if you are split from the parent of your children and want a new relationship. Yes, the parent is entitled to a life and happiness - but they also need to take into account their children's needs and to some extent their wants.

If my OH's daughter had her way, he would be single until she's about 25. By that point he'd be mid 60s and quite probably looking at a lonely old age. If he only considered himself, we'd be looking at moving in together round about now. Instead, we've reached a compromise we can at least live with and that actually now suits all of us well.

I spent a lot of time with his daughter and got to know her. I found out about her likes, hobbies and interests. I made sure to engage with her and include her in things. I see my OH 2-3 times a week and generally stay over 1-2 times a week. We won't move in together until his daughter is approaching adulthood, by which time we'll have been together long enough to know to some degree that it's likely to work. His daughter is seeing him happy in a relationship but she's also secure in the knowledge that I haven't trumped her or pushed her away.

The trick is to make sure that you're adding to the child's life, not taking something away. New partners are easier to accept under those circumstances.

I wonder at his view of all this. He seems rather ambivalent:

• He’s not willing to move area to live with you.
• You think it may be the end of your relationship if you don’t move to be with him - so I guess he’s not willing to continue long distance?
• He doesn’t have a great relationship with your daughter, something that you’re trying to fix for him. What’s he doing to improve it?

So he’s only interested in continuing to the relationship if you move closer to him, regardless of how much it upsets your DD, and if you do all the work to make your DD ok with it. It’s not a great start for a happy life together...

OP, it’s great that you acknowledge how your daughter feels and I’m sure you’ll reiterate to her that you’re not going to move unless she is happy with it.

Regarding their relationship, I agree that you need to make sure your relationship with her is solid first, which I know is your first priority. Could you try asking her what she dislikes about your partner? Then you can work out if there are things he can do to build a relationship with her. Unfortunately she might feel her concerns about him are insurmountable, but that doesn’t mean you need to end it, just don’t put her in the position where she needs to live with him.

Perhaps your DP could relocate closer to your area (not directly in to the area to avoid the wider family issues) to facilitate you meeting more frequently and, as your daughter gets older, you’ll have more opportunity to further develop yours and DPs relationship? Then, when she’s old enough you and DP could relocate if you want to. I think if he’s a truly decent man that will be something he will at least sincerely consider. If not, then I’m afraid it doesn’t seem he’s really fully bought in to you.

I know it’s a horrid situation and you and your daughter deserve to be happy, but it’s not you that always needs to compromise.

@zatarontoast

No *@GoldfishParade*, not at all. But if you read the thread back many are showing their lack of insight, questioning why she has kept her partner a secret, why she doesn't want to tell her parents about him and she shouldn't have to move town, just phone the police if she feels unsafe. If there was a BME section, posters from similar backgrounds would have threads like these brought to their attention more quickly. It's not about alienating the ma jority, more getting advice from posters who have lived experience and can advise the OP, instead of her answering questions that those without the experience cannot really seem to comprehend.

I totally agree. There was another thread on here a while back about a woman who was considering living with her MIL and some of the responses really didn't seem to demonstrate a grasp of why this is so difficult to refuse - 'no' is a complete sentence and all of that MN stuff. No one's saying that you can't comment on the situation if you're not BAME, but being of a similar cultural and religious background may give you an additional insight into some of the complexities involved.