Another ‘He hasn’t proposed’ thread...

[MangoMarmalade]

Long story short:
We have three kids (older two not his, younger is one year old).
I have made no secret of desire to get married for multiple reasons. Had the ‘one day, let me ask you, it’s tradition’ promises from him.
I have an asset, he has none.
He works full time, I don’t have a career and don’t currently work at all.
When youngest was born I wanted to give my surname as he hadn’t wanted to get married yet. He was adamant that no, baby would have his surname and promised to propose within the year, be married within two.
Hasn’t happened. Last time we spoke about it he made the comment ‘but when our youngest is much older then we can have honeymoon’ etc he has wanted to have another baby, I said not without a ring on my finger and he was all ‘so you’d refuse to have another baby just for a bit of paper!’
Basically reveals he has no intention of fulfilling his promise of asking me any time soon.

AIBU to leave the relationship?

Just a word of warning, you may not be married but if he lives with you, contributes to bills and upkeep of the property he has a 'beneficial' interest in the property and could put a claim in in the event you split. He would have to convince a court that you had agreed or promised him a share of the property. If this is not the case I would draft up a document that states that you don't intend to share the property. Otherwise you could end up going to court and experiencing a lot of headache if you split.

Thanks for the advice will look into getting agreement drawn up that house remains mine if we split

[quote MangoMarmalade]@SleepingStandingUp yes eldest twos bio dad doesn't pay a penny currently as is not officially working....so CMS can't wage deduct.

DP works full time, earns about 50k as a sub contractor for building construction company , pays all our bills, food, car etc. Treats eldest two as his own. [/quote]
And you want to throw that away over this singular way of feeling loved and cherished?
You do need a really honest chat, and I understand the lying getting to you but if the only thing that will make you feel loved is a wedding you shouldn't be getting married

Omg really this waiting around for a proposal- if you want to get married just get married - ask him?

Maybe he did have every intention of asking you and getting married but when he thought long and hard about it, the idea scared him.

I love my OH and couldn't imagine the rest of my life without him. There's absolutely no one else I want to be with. But the idea of marriage scares me tbh. Not because of him but because I'm scared it'll change something that's great. Or that the "freedom" we have to be together will be replaced with this contract that must be together....

Maybe it's not you or any reflection of you. Maybe he's just marriage scared?

He's so full of shit and that would make me emotionally distance myself .
You can't feel safe and secure with a liar.
If you want to continue living with him do it with the understanding you can only rely on yourself .
Hopefully someone will come into life who loves you unconditionally and would be honoured to be your husband .

OP, I agree with good advice from above posters - getting married when you have your own mortgage-free house is foolish, frankly, as in a couple of years he could walk off with half your asset. You not working is a risk, but these days substantial long-term spousal support is rarely approved in the event of a divorce even if one partner has never worked, so you'd be finding yourself having to get a job either way. So from a logical, financial point of view, getting married doesn't make any sense for you.

HOWEVER, I fully appreciate wanting to get married because it's what you've always wanted, it would make you feel truly deeply loved, etc. I had to nudge my DH into proposing pretty heavily, and while I don't regret it, it would have been nicer if he'd not needed the nudge. I agree with previous posters that you need to address your own feelings around marriage rather than risk your financial security or a seemingly very supportive relationship (paying all bills, treating your kids as his own etc.) on this issue. I'd suggest starting with a serious, dedicated conversation with him about it - google non-confrontational discussions and try using some of those techniques (only do this if you still want to risk all the above and get married anyway). Otherwise I would second the recommendation for therapy to help you get past this and realise pushing for marriage is a choice that doesn't make any sense for you individually and will help you get over the fact it's not happening for you.

Please listen when I tell you: marriage has nothing to do with tradition and romance. It's a legal/ financial contract and you're better off without it. You keep your asset and he funds your life and your children - sounds all right to me! You can be romantic and traditional without being married.

Amen to this. You’re actually in a pretty sweet spot, with your own property and a man bank-rolling you and your two other children.

If you do have another child, absolutely insist on it having your surname. He’s had his chance to marry you and you’re over it now, so the child has your name. But better would be to get him funding some childcare and get yourself into training and work. Once you can fund your whole lifestyle you can decide whether you want him to be in it or not.

You are a strong woman and you don’t need a ring on your finger to validate you.

"DP works full time, earns about 50k as a sub contractor for building construction company , pays all our bills, food, car etc. Treats eldest two as his own."

Do you want marriage or commitment? According to your above post you already have the commitment. Not a lot of men are spoken of on mumsnet to step up like your DP has done.

I would definitely want the same surname as my child and if the child is so young they won’t know the difference if you change it.

@SleepingStandingUp am I really so weird for wanting the person I love to want me to be their wife? I feel like I'm going to have to grieve over that if I stay with him.

In your position. Owning a house, but no career or work of your own and the older two dc not being his.

Not a cat in hells chance would I be marrying this man.

Yes it's nice to be married, but by god if I were you I'd be protecting your asset at all costs. That house is for you and your children. If you married him and then you died he could have the house and your older dc could end up with nothing. A prenup means nothing.

Massively disagree with PP sayingyou'd be unreasonable - he kept leading you to believe you would marry him! That manipulation and lying is enough reason to leave him.

[quote MangoMarmalade]@SleepingStandingUp am I really so weird for wanting the person I love to want me to be their wife? I feel like I'm going to have to grieve over that if I stay with him. [/quote]
No, Bo said earlier it can absolutely be your deal breaker. Pack him a bag and tell him to go. You don't need to be with anyone that you don't want a relationship with.

I just think that decision should be balanced and you should explore why it's a deal breaker for you.

Because he said he would and then lied?

Because you want to feel loved?
They're very very different reasons

You can't assume that you're better off not married because of the property.

What about pensions (does he have one, what's it like?) and future earnings (did you work before having your youngest? When will you go back to work and what is your likely earning trajectory? Is he employed or self-employed?).

Also, is he contributing to your mortgage and/or home improvements?

If you split up without getting married first then you may well keep the house but can you afford to pay for it? The only thing he would have to pay you is CMS for the youngest.

@Heyahun I did ask him he said no because he is the man and he has to propose.

Honestly I am going to have to reconcile myself to not getting married.

a) why get married to someone who doesn't want to marry you.

b) as per all the Advice on protecting my asset for sake of my kids.

I don't know if he will agree to changing the babies name to double barrel but I will suggest this.

Yes I'd say he's pretty committed without marriage but it's just the bullshit lies I'm pissed off with.

*Please listen when I tell you: marriage has nothing to do with tradition and romance. It's a legal/ financial contract and you're better off without it. You keep your asset and he funds your life and your children - sounds all right to me! You can be romantic and traditional without being married.

Amen to this. You’re actually in a pretty sweet spot, with your own property and a man bank-rolling you and your two other children.

If you do have another child, absolutely insist on it having your surname. He’s had his chance to marry you and you’re over it now, so the child has your name. But better would be to get him funding some childcare and get yourself into training and work. Once you can fund your whole lifestyle you can decide whether you want him to be in it or not.

You are a strong woman and you don’t need a ring on your finger to validate you.*

^ this with bells on. Come on girl, you're in a golden position.

Anyone who is sufficiently interested in "traditional" values that they believe the man needs to be the one to propose should also recognise a responsibility to cherish, protect and honour the person they are building a life with. He hasn't demonstrated these characteristics.

This.

Ultimately, of course you have the right to feel that his refusal to marry you and his lies are reasons to end the relationship.

However, in this instance, I would consider things carefully. Financially, you're probably better off as you are for now. Not least because if he left, you'd have the house but you would struggle to pay the bills, clothe the kids etc. If he is happily paying all of this, including for two children who are not his - If I understand correctly, you have no income whatsoeverever so I assume he is paying for school uniforms, food, phones, travel etc for them?- , he can't be all bad (and yes, I appreciate that he's not having to pay rent so of course there's a benefit for him).

But you will need to work through his for yourself to decide if you're okay with it.

Have you both actually ever talked about marriage? About how you feel about it, whether you both want to be married?

If you OH believes in marriage and wants to be married one day why does he not want to marry you? If he doesn't believe in marriage and thinks "it's just a piece of paper" then, as others have said, he could still marry you because he knows it is important to you and (supposedly) he loves you and wants you to be happy.

It's so sad that so many couples have children when they are not married if marriage is important to one of them.

Sorry, x-posted. So if you split up now then no mortgage, could you afford bills? How would you fund your old age?
Presumably you would be entitled to some benefits, single occupier rate on council tax etc.

@Palavah I own the house outright, it was an inheritance.

But he pays all the bills, all our costs. I did have a pet care business but I gave it up when I was pregnant with our baby due to mental health reasons. I never made as much as him though.

I have a levels, I didn't complete my degree and I've never had a career. I had my eldest at age 20 and spent the next several years in abusive relationship and not working.

To me, actions speak louder than words.

Your DP is saying in words quite clearly that he doesn't want to get married. But you have made it quite clear by your actions that you weren't bothered enough about marriage to get married before you had a child with your DP. You've given the child his surname. So, to me, it looks as if you've changed your mind. He's stayed the same. Why should he change?

Obviously I'm just some random on the internet but that's how it looks to me as an outsider.

Other points I'd consider in your shoes are my financial security married v. single, my DC having two live-in parents (assuming otherwise good relationship between them) and to what extent I was hoping that marriage will fix my long-term issues and how likely it is that it would.

@lynsey91 first couple of years of relationship he always stated he believed in
Marriage and wanted us to get married some day. Then it evolved to him not believing in it and it only being a bit of paper, but he would marry me one day if it was important to me.

@amicissimma have the child his surname as he was very, very angry when I told him I'd be giving my surname as we weren't married. Very unlike him as he's usually so calm! And he absolutely promised we would be married within a year or so.

To be honest, I will never understand why people are so hooked up on being married....unless you are religious, want to maintain a certain image, or do things in a particular order there is no point really.

E.g. if you were keen to get married before moving in together or having kids...I would understand you're desire. But as you're already at that point in your relationship, you or he doesn't really gain anything from being married.

(With the exception of possibly greater financial protection for one of the spouses)